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Make and Model lists and research / Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Last post by kewald on August 04, 2020, 05:43:48 PM »
I purchased a Penzel Mueller Bb Clarinet on Ebay and am in the process of restoring it.  The clarinet is marked "LP" and "B".  SN is 11832, so apparently it was made ca. 1935.
This was one of my earliest restoration attempts and I made mistakes that ruined two of the key posts.  Essentially, the posts must be replaced or remade. Then fitted to the body and drilled, faced and tapped for a new rod.
Background of the opportunity to learn: When I received the instrument, the Hinge Rod was stuck in the posts and was too short, driven in by someone who broke one of the slot tangs.
Mistakes made:  Tried getting it out by grinding a flat on a spare rod to mate it to the remaining slot - used it like a screwdriver but couldn't get it to budge.  Then, clamped the joint in my drill press vice and drilled out the rod, which messed up the hole in the post when the bit drifted.  Don't recall the exact sequence of subsequent events, but I believe I may have gotten the posts out of the body and then in trying to extract the thread end of the rod - broke it off.  Drilled it out messing up the hole again.  Silver soldered some brass rod into the holes, remounted the posts and tried to drill through one into the other.  Of course, I don't have the proper equipment, so those holes didn't work either.  Filled them both with silver solder and set the project aside. 

That was a few months ago.  In the meantime I've learned a better way of extracting impossible rods - cut between the hinge and post at the slot end with a jewelers saw, remove that post from the body and then twist out the other post using the remaining rod.  Then soak the rod & post in penetrating oil and gradually work the rod out.  Reface the cut post and add a little silver solder to the cut hinge then reface that to fit between the posts - ream to fit the new rod.  I learned about this from a nice professional SaxProShop technician when the second problem arose.

I now have a joint mounting jig and cross slide vice for my drill press, so with the judicious use of a very small machinist jack that I will make from a screw, connecting nut and stop nut, I could attempt another drilling.  However, I'm concerned about the strength of the threads being tapped into silver solder/nickel-silver.  And of course, I might mess it up yet again.
Is it worth fixing? If so, any ideas of someone who could tackle the job, or of another approach.

All about Clarinets / Re: Arts and crafts projects
« Last post by GrumpyMiddleAgedMan on August 04, 2020, 01:57:05 PM »
Sorry for the bad joke. Let me just begin by saying that I would never do that. I find it to be a waste (usually) of an instrument. Im sure there are exceptionally terrible clarinets that deserve it.  Also I find the sight of them extremely tacky. I mean if you think it looks nice, by all means.  I just wouldn't be able to live with myself having to wake up every morning to the sight of one of those. I think a junker would probably make a good chew toy for a bird, wood of course. Strip it down first, don't need them chewing on metal.  ;D
All about Clarinets / Re: Arts and crafts projects
« Last post by DaveLeBlanc on August 04, 2020, 11:37:09 AM »
Grumpy, if you want to make a lamp, I know a guy who manufactures non-destructible lamp kits. Basically, you assemble the clarinet as normal and then the lightbulb socket inserts into the barrel, sort of like a mouthpiece. Comes with a stand and a shade. Last I heard the kits were $23
All about Clarinets / Re: Arts and crafts projects
« Last post by windydankoff on August 04, 2020, 05:27:33 AM »
Grumpy -  On the MP rails, variations less than the width of a hair will make or break its performance. I've ruined enough to know that if you do anything without knowing exactly what you are doing, there's almost no chance it's going to play right. I hope you'll try a proper MP and let us know how she blows! May you be illuminated (not by a lamp).
All about Clarinets / Re: Arts and crafts projects
« Last post by GrumpyMiddleAgedMan on August 03, 2020, 09:25:16 PM »
Finally got pads in for that rubber inner lined pruefer. It playa pretty well as is I think. I was fooling around with the mouth piece and ended up with a larger bore and seems to work fairly well. It doesn't seem to be an easy blower but not too hard either but I think its because I was messing around with the rails.
I like the color the keys have. I opted not to shine them and they have a rosie tone to them which I think matches the discolored rubber.
Loks so nice maybe I'll turn it into a lamp....  :o (not really)
All about Clarinets / Re: Klezmer anyone?!
« Last post by windydankoff on August 03, 2020, 08:00:31 PM »
Thanks Allen. You're a gem!
All about Clarinets / Re: Klezmer anyone?!
« Last post by allen lutins on August 03, 2020, 06:27:59 PM »
Windy - Given the wide range of instruments that were traditionally used (from hammered dulcimers to trombones), I do think that klezmer is all about the player (remember - a klezmer IS a musician!).

Airflyte: I wouldn't characterize klezmer scales as "minor" - they really are distinctly modal. What makes them distinctive is the ubiquitous presence of an augmented second (three half steps) between either the second and third of the scale (commonly referred to as "freygish") or between the third and fourth of the scale (typically referred to as "misheberach"). These scales derive from Jewish liturgical music, which originated in the Middle East (thus lending a bit of Middle Eastern sound to the genre, while other aspects of klezmer remain firmly rooted in the Western tradition).

And klezmer encompasses a LOT more than fast tunes. Klezmorim traditionally accompanied an old world wedding that could last as long as a week. The festival encompassed numerous traditions, all of which were accompanied by music, including dawn and dusk greetings, tunes to accompany family and guests to and from the various festivities, "table" tunes (played as one ambled from table to table) - all of which were slower tunes than those typically envisioned as "klezmer". For example, check out this Gas Nign (street tune) at The repertoire is full such of beautiful, slow tunes!

Another tradition is the doina - an improvisational/expository piece that functions something like the Indian alap (for those of you familiar with the structure of Hindustani raga), often (but not necessarily) segueing into a faster tune. These tend to be slow and full of feeling - one fine example is posted to Admittedly these old 78 recordings can be a bit rough to listen to, but I wanted to include an historic flute recording for Windy's sake ;)

All about Clarinets / Re: Pieces of history? Parts or instrument.
« Last post by Airflyte on August 03, 2020, 01:32:28 PM »
Looks like the newer and final font type that PM used.

I'm no expert on flutes (I just bought one though) but I would start with the usual suspects that were made in Elkhart Indiana. Maybe start with Armstrong flutes and see if there are any visual similarities with the keywork and such.

Congrats on the flute purchase!
All about Clarinets / Re: Klezmer anyone?!
« Last post by Airflyte on August 03, 2020, 01:25:36 PM »
I like the "flavor" of the minor scales used.,to%20more%20typical%20Western%20scales.

A bit too fast and furious for me.

Let's keep in mind the very roots of this genre would have been in a different pitch. Most likely lower than today's A = 440-442Hz. I assume the overall feel of early medieval folk music would have been very different.

I would be willing to explore the tonality of the early works however I have become less tolerant of the current standard pitch. I get more pleasure from works in 450Hz, 430Hz and lower but sometimes 415Hz sounds somewhat lacking to me.

Rant over.  Please continue, this is a very interesting thread!
All about Clarinets / Re: Klezmer anyone?!
« Last post by windydankoff on August 03, 2020, 08:57:30 AM »
Many thanks Allen the marvelous resource material on your site. Your video of Klez Project - "Silberne Khasene" on your home page serves well to exemplify the sound, and your playing skill.

Do you find that specific types of clarinet, mouthpiece and reed help facilitate the klezmer "voice"? Or is it ALL in the player?
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