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Author Topic: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread  (Read 11734 times)

Offline Windsong

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Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« on: April 25, 2017, 06:32:58 PM »
Welcome to  The Official Clarinet Pages Harry Pedler Thread.

Here you will find what will hopefully become the most comprehensive collection of Serial Number data on the Harry Pedler marque in cyberspace, as well as historical insight into the marvelous, mysterious maker who excelled as a pioneer and innovator--Mr. Harry Walter Pedler, himself.  Many very thoughtful and motivated people are to thank for the information thus far accumulated, and herein documented.

I offer my most sincere appreciation to Phil Pedler for making all of this possible in the first place, and for his tireless dedication to the preservation of clarinet history in its many forms across a multitude of spectrums, our own Silversorcerer for initially getting me interested in Pedler clarinets, his insistance that I start a HP thread, and his vast initial contribution of serial number data that enabled me to cobble together a noteworthy and legitimate list "out of the gate", Dean McMakin for his phenominal collection of Elkhart data and tremendous, personal dedication to the incredible Indiana musical instrument industry at large, and our own Rocket350 for his insight, personal notes on Harry Pedler serial numbers and model designations, photographic contributions of warranty cards, and assistance in finding legitimate sources of information on the internet, scanned from the original sources dating from the beginning of the last century.  I thank those, too, who selflessly went to the trouble to make such information available to us.  AND I thank all of you who have engaged this thread with your insights and contributions.  There will no doubt be a good many more who offer future contibutions for which we will be forever thankful.


Please keep in mind that this thread is a work in progress, and while fact, or presumed "fact" will be stated as fact, there will be many instances where factual data is not, or "not yet" available, and it will be stated as such.  As it is, there shall be many amendments to original posts, going forward.  It is my hope that we can develop a timeline with an accumulation of serial numbers, random bits of data, advertisements and with good fortune, a sales receipt or two.   I appreciate EVERY contribution of information, as this list will serve all who seek information on this topic.  I will accept folklore, readily, and present it as such, until such information can be confirmed as fact, maintained as folklore, or easily disputed.  The way we grow and learn is through the sharing of information, so I invite each knowledgeable reader to share what (s)he knows, or thinks (s)he knows.  Understand that we are "writing history" right now, presumably based upon honest representation and careful calculation of all we glean.  It is our inherent responsibility to be as accurate as available information will allow.  This is exciting and dangerous territory.  Readers beware:
 
What we think we know for certain:
Born 21 January, 1872 in London, Harry Walter Pedler Sr. was "cherry-picked" from his native England by William J. Gronert (AKA: "Tommy Atkins", born 30 December, 1851 in Hastings, England) --a fellow Englishman, and associate of Charles Gerard Conn in July of 1905, at which point he was already considered a master clarinet craftsman, having been taught the trade by his tenure with Rudall, Carte and Co., LTD from the age of 13 (1885) first as an apprentice.  At the age of 28 (1900), he reportedly left Rudall, Carte and Co., LTD, and began his own clarinet manufacturing business under his own name, until being ushered to the United States by Gronert with his wife, Louisa Hughes Pedler, and 5 year old son, Harry Junior.  Pedler worked for and with Conn until 1914, when, yearning for home, he left Conn's employ.  Bags in hand, his return to London was abruptly hampered by the outbreak of WWI, and was unable make the voyage.  Whether or not he ever returned to England is unknown.  In 1916, Harry Pedler and William J. Gronert founded the American Manufacturing Company.  It is interesting to note that Gronert worked for Conn until 1911, and "then organized the Elkhart Musical Instrument Company which merged with the Martin Band Instrument Company, of which he was the secretary and general manager at the time of his death". (Taken from his obituary posted in The Elkhart Truth, 26 July 1919).  This information raises more questions (and eyebrows) than it answers, as it would imply he worked concurrently with Pedler and the MBIC.  Any contract that may still exist, written up between any of the aforementioned fellows during their tenure with one another, would perhaps tell us about the hierarchical culture that existed at the time.

Upon Gronert's death on 25 July, 1919, Harry Pedler re-branded the company (see: Presto; February 12, 1920, for announcement) under his own name, and in March of 1930, Harry Pedler sold his company to The Martin Band Instrument Company (MBIC), but continued on in senior management capacities, and oversaw the perpetuation of his legacy until his departure, reportedly in April of 1931, (Thanks to 350 Rocket, we have an account from an April 1931 edition of Music Trade Review, confirming Harry Pedler Sr's and Jr's resignation from MBIC.  The same article also mentions Harry Pedler founding his business in 1914, which is an oversimplified interpretation of actual events) when he and his son, reportedly displeased with the direction of production under MBIC left the company abruptly and ultimately went to work with Ferdinand August "Gus" Buescher (of saxophone fame at the time, though he also dabbled in clarinets) on 23 July, 1932, making brasswind instruments. 

By December of 1937 (and one account I have states 1936) MBIC-made Pedler clarinets would no longer be stamped, "Harry Pedler and Co.", and were instead ALL stamped "The Pedler Co."  when Harry Pedler changed the name of his joint venture with Buescher from Art Musical Instrument Company and re-branded the company "Harry Pedler and Sons", directly after Gus Buescher's death on 29 November, 1937.  This is significant, because there was a 6+ year window after Harry Pedler's departure from MBIC, where his name DID, INDEED adorn production clarinets in its original form, without his own influence.  I consider this April 1931-December 1937 window of time "transitional". 

To complicate matters, some true Harry Pedler clarinets made prior to April 1930 were also stamped "The Pedler" and other similar variants, but to re-iterate,  no clarinets after December 1937 were authorised to be stamped "Harry Pedler and Co.", as Harry Pedler had re-secured rights to his name by this point.

Thus far, evidence showing that any true Harry Pedler clarinets (1919-1930) were adorned with a serial number is scarce, and a good many clarinets were not even engraved at all--even with his name, sometimes, during the earliest years.  The standing exception is that BBb models may have been serialized early in their production, and 350 Rocket makes mention of serialization starting in 1928 with the Premiere model, and noting that all metal Pedler clarinets have perhaps always been serialized.  I now have in my possession what most clearly appears to be a post-1923/pre-1931 Albert System top joint, Model 1544, myself, which bears a serial number.  Until further evidence surfaces, however, it is a cautious measure to operate under the calculated assumption that the serial number process officially began when Martin Band Instrument Company took the reins in March of 1930, but I look forward to disproving this, if such factual data is made available.

Several different materials were used in the construction of both Harry Pedler and The Pedler Co. Clarinets:  Rosewood, Grenadilla wood, Hard Rubber (Ebonite), "Gren-O-Lite", and Silver-plated brass.  It has been reported that the early heavy guage metal clarinets were not manufactured of silver-plated brass.  Rather, they were constructed entirely out of solid nickel-silver.  I cannot substantiate this claim, but I would appreciate the insights of those who may know and/or own such instruments. The professional model, heavy guage, single walled metal clarinets have been recorded at 914 grams (see reference, this site).  It has been said that Harry Pedler preferred Hard Rubber, and made clarinets in metal or wood upon request or demand.

At the height of production, Harry Pedler expanded his business to keep up with the demand for his clarinets.  It has been (incorrectly, I believe) reported that he could manufacture over 500 clarinets per day (The music Trade Review, June 23, 1923) and then reported 6 months later that he could manufacture 600 clarinets per month (The Music Trade Review, December 29, 1923).  The manufacture of 7200 clarinets, per year--Pre-Martin, is a lofty, but plausible expectation from a medium-sized shop of 10,000 square feet and 70 workers (Presto-Times, March 1930), whereas the projected manufacture of 180,000 clarinets per year is most certainly not. 

In 1937, upon MBIC relinquishing the rights to the Harry Pedler brand,  the name "Harry Pedler" would never adorn another woodwind; only brasswinds.  While a good many of the MBIC clarinets produced after April 1931 were designed and intended primarily for the student market, high-end professional models were also made.   Harry Walter Pedler Sr.'s legacy primarily resides in his own, fantastic self-branded clarinets made prior to 1931, and the truly exceptional, laboriously hand finished, carefully and cleverly executed professional level clarinets manufactured by MBIC that were simply a more refined, direct extension of Harry Pedler's original designs. 

Harry Walter Pedler Sr. died 25 September, 1950, in Elkhart, Indiana.  At the time of his death, His son, Harry Walter Pedler Jr. took over as chief of their brasswind venture, and ultimately sold the business to Selmer in 1958.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 06:08:18 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 06:44:02 PM »
HARRY PEDLER/THE PEDLER, CO. SERIAL NUMBER LIST:

* All clarinets, unless listed otherwise are Bb Sopranos in the BOEHM SYSTEM.  While Harry Pedler made clarinets in the keys of A, C, and Eb, I have only ever seen one Eb in metal.  I have in my possession, literature published by Harry Pedler from 1924 verifying their existence, however.

** All clarinets listed are deemed or known to be Low Pitch (A=440Hz).  I have never seen a HP Harry Pedler, and firmly believe none exist.  I have come across no literature stating any were ever made—even in the Albert system.

*** All clarinets listed were made between 1919-1956.  When specifics on dates are made available, especially as they relate to prefix model range, they will be posted.

****  I have personally examined a good many of the clarinets on this list, either from handling the clarinets personally or careful scrutiny of photographs from internet auctions, and conversing with owners and sellers in cyberspace whom I will likely never actually meet.  Quite literally, thousands of hours have been spent in the culmination of data (including the time of generous others who have selflessly contributed to this project for purpose of historical preservation of often fleeting information) recording and examining clarinets to ensure accuracy, but no claims are made to 100% accuracy.  If you know of reported data that is incorrect or seems incorrect, please make it known, and it will be investigated/corrected.  If you own (or come to own) any clarinets listed, and can provide further details of any kind, I'd be most obliged.




HARRY PEDLER CLARINETS, SANS SERIAL NUMBER

No S/N...Hard Rubber..."Harry Pedler & Co." In oval with lyre crown...17/6 Boehm with "Pedler Appliance" ( no crow's foot)..."A" hand scribed key batch marks under LH pinky keys.

No S/N...Grenadilla wood..."Harry Pedler & Co." In oval with lyre crown...17/6 Boehm with "Pedler Appliance"

No S/N...ALBERT SYSTEM SOPRANO...Model 152 (2-ring, non-roller pinky keys)...Hard Rubber..."Harry Pedler & Co." in diamond logo (stamped on mouthpiece, barrel and bell)...50/50 case...over/under thumbrest screws..."wrap-around" register key. ("KESSELMAN-O'DRISCOLL Co. MILWAUKEE, WISC. DISTRIBUTORS" stamped on bell underneath diamond logo).

No S/N...ALBERT SYSTEM SOPRANO...Model 1544 (4-ring, roller pinky keys)...Hard Rubber..."Harry Pedler & Co." in diamond logo (stamped on mouthpiece, barrel and bell)...over/under thumbrest screws.

No S/N...Hard Rubber..."Harry Pedler & Co." in oval with lyre crown...50/50 case...18/7 ( Augmented model 177?)...over/under thumbrest pinning..."Pedler Appliance" (i.e. no crow's foot)..."D" stamped key batch marks under LH pinky keys...G#/A adjustment screw.

No S/N...Bass Clarinet, Model 201A...Rosewood..."Harry Pedler & Co."..."USQMC" (United States [ARMY] Quartermaster Corps)...(see photos, this thread)

No S/N...Bass Clarinet, Model 201A...Rosewood..."Harry Pedler & Co."..."USQMC"...open ring at LH1.




NON-METAL CLARINETS, SANS PREFIX

1103...BASS CLARINET, Model 201A...Rosewood..."Harry Pedler & Co.".

1105...BASS CLARINET, Model 201A...Rosewood..."Harry Pedler & Co."...open ring at LH1...(possibly pre-1931)

1126...BASS CLARINET, Model 201A...Rosewood..."Harry Pedler & Co."...complete plateau upper joint...(likely pre-1931)

3762...Hard Rubber...top joint only...Model 1544 (15 key, 4 ring) ALBERT SYSTEM SOPRANO

14911...Grenadilla Wood..."The Pedler Co." In oval w/ lyre crown...top joint only (split through register key)...cannibalized for a few keys...RIP (ODD, but in personally examining the on-line photo, I see no prefix)




P-SERIES

P2910...Grenadilla wood..."Pedler Special" (no oval)...Geib style “Pedler” branded case...18/7...over/under thumbrest screws...crow's foot.

P3397...Grenadilla wood..."Pedler Premier" (no oval)... knurled adjustable top barrel ring...Geib style tan case.

P4217...Grenadilla wood..."Premier By Pedler"...17/6...over/under thumbrest screws...crow's foot...Authentic, branded Geib case, also with Pedler tag.

P8706...unknown composition..."Premier By Pedler"...17/6...over/under thumbrest screws...crow's foot.

P9218...Wood..."Harry Pedler & Co. Premier"..18/7.

P10354...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6.

P11153...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6.

P11172...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown...17/6...crow's foot...over/under thumbrest screws...original Geib style case...individual upper joint trill key posts.

P11297...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6

P11664...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6...conventional "Pedler" branded case...crow's foot.

P11807...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown...17/6...crow's foot...twin under thumbrest screws...individual upper joint trill key posts.

P11825...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6...hard rubber bell and barrel with "Harry Pedler and Co." logo in oval w/ lyre crown.

P12138...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in Oval with lyre crown...4 upper joint trill key posts...17/6...crow's foot...twin, "under-thumbrest" screws...silver plated keys...Pedler-branded Geib style case.

P13320...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6

P13800...Wood...The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown and "Premier"...17/6...crow's foot...

P14718..."The Pedler Co"...4 upper joint trill key posts...17/6...Geib case.

P14776...wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6...crow's foot...twin “under-thumbrest” screws.

P15778...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6

P15168...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown...17/6...crow's foot...Pedler branded Geib style case...twin under-thumbrest screws.

P16116...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown...17/6...crow's foot...4 upper joint trill key posts...silver plated keys...S/N on UJ and LJ.

P16176...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...17/6.

P19356...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...17/6...crow's foot...early 1940s Pedler-branded case...over/under thumbrest screws...S/N on UJ and LJ.

P19631...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...early 1940s Pedler-branded case...17/6...crow's foot.

P19805...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...unbranded, mid-to-late 1940s case (medium brown, rectangular w/ rounded corners)...twin under-thumbrest screws...4 trill posts...new "T-style" bridge key (post WWII)...S/N on UJ and LJ...crow's foot

P22229...Wood..."The Pedler Co." and "Pedler Pennant"...



E-SERIES

E1136...Guarantee Bond only...Hard Rubber...Professional Model...Signed by Sid Pedler.

E1352...Hard Rubber...17/6.

E1430...Hard Rubber...Hoosier model...17/6...With Guarantee Bond signed by Sid Pedler.

E3089...Hard Rubber..."American, The Pedler Co." (no oval)...Geib case w/o Pedler brand...S/N on LJ prominently, and faintly on TJ...factory lyre band on LJ socket ring...17/6...over/under thumbrest screws...crow's foot.

E3253...Hard Rubber..."Premier, The Pedler Co."...18/7.

E6781...Hard Rubber..."Pedler Hoosier, Elkhart, Indiana" (open logo)...17/6...Crow's foot...over/under thumbrest screws...shared throat trill posts...Pedler-branded flat, rectangular, snake-skin 50/50 case.

E13866...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co."...17/6.

E14613...Hard Rubber...Pedler Hoosier, Elkhart, Indiana" (open logo)...17/6...Crow's foot...over/under thumbrest screws...shared throat trill posts...Pedler-branded Geib case.

E15301...Hard Rubber..."Art Craft Symphony" bell engraving...17/6...crow's foot...unusual 50/50 case.

E15828...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/lyre crown...50/50 snakeskin case w/Pedler brand...17/6...S/N on UJ (and perhaps on LJ?).

E16298...Hard Rubber..."American, The Pedler Co." (no oval)...Geib style Selmer case...17/6...S/N on UJ and LJ...factory lyre band on LJ socket band...crow's foot.

E16299...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/lyre crown...50/50 case...17/6...factory lyre band on LJ socket ring...17/6...Single(!), under-thumbrest screw...crow's foot.

E16705...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...17/6...no case...factory lyre band on LJ socket ring...crow's foot.

E17423...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler co." In oval w/lyre crown...17/6...original Geib style case...crow's foot...shared upper joint trill key posts...bell is grenadilla, and stamped "American".

E17772...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." In oval w/ lyre crown...17/6...crow's foot...individual top joint trill key posts.

E19190...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...Geib case w/o Pedler brand...S/N on UJ and LJ...18/7..twin under-thumbrest pins..."Pedler Appliance" (i.e. no crow's foot).

E19986...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co."...17/6.

E20675...Warranty card..."The Pedler Co."...Bb...Model 157...(date of 8/21/47 handwritten on top of card.  Penmanship is notably different on 2s and 7s, as is ink color.  Added after the fact for posterity, perhaps.) 

E21640...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/lyre crown...17/6.

E22104...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." In oval w/lyre crown...17/6...Geib case, original ligature.

E22124...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/lyre crown...17/6...Geib case...4 upper joint trill key posts.

E24581...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." In oval w/lyre crown...17/6...Geib style "Pedler" branded case...4 upper joint trill key posts...twin under-thumbrest screws.

E28067...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." without oval logo...17/6...50/50 case with storage slot...4 upper joint trill key posts...correct single screw ligature and mouthpiece.

E30525...Hard Rubber...17/6...individual upper trill key posts...twin under-thumbrest screws...original Pedler case.

E30970...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...17/6...Pedler-branded Geib style case.

E31115...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co" in oval with lyre crown...17/6...Pedler flat case...ringless bell.

E31699...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co"....17/6.

E32334...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co" in oval with lyre crown...17/6...crow's foot...Lyre holder socket ring...original, Pedler-branded, Geib style case in medium brown...thin plating on keys...original mouthpiece

E33152...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co"....17/6...bakelite bell?

E34363...BASS CLARINET...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown...S/N on UJ and LJ.

E36489...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown...17/6...twin, "under-thumbrest" screws...4 upper joint trill key posts...Pedler branded Geib style case in tweed (dark brown leatherette is standard, though they are found in tan and medium brown, too)...lyre holder socket ring.

E37071...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co."...conventional "Pedler" branded case...17/6...crow's foot.

E38008...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...17/6...twin, under-thumbrest screws...4 upper joint trill key posts...crow's foot.

E38475...Hard Rubber..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/ lyre crown...17/6...twin, under-thumbrest screws...4 upper joint trill key posts...crow's foot.




T SERIES

T6178...Wood..."Trophy" in script on top front of upper joint, "Pedler" above a trophy cup and "Elkhart Indiana" below it, engraved on barrel...17/6...crow's foot.

T6510...Wood..."Trophy" in script on top front of upper joint, "Pedler" above a trophy cup and "Elkhart Indiana" below it, engraved on bell...17/6...crow's foot...Pedler branded case.




N-SERIES

N24803..."The Pedler Co."...17/6 (UNICORN of the bunch.  Mis-recorded, or rarest of the Pedler breed?)




W-SERIES:

W267...Grenadilla wood..."Harry Pedler & Co." In oval with lyre crown...17/6..."Pedler Appliance" (i.e. no crow's foot).

W709...Grenadilla wood..."Harry Pedler & Co." In oval...17/6..."Pedler Appliance".

W3211..."The Pedler Co."   silver keys...adjustment screw at crow's foot.

W8007...Wood..."The Pedler Co."...18/7..."Pedler Appliance" (i.e. no crow's foot)...matching serials on UJ and LJ...pinned top joint.

W8267...Wood ..."The Pedler Co."...18/7...articulated C#/G#..."Pedler Appliance" (i.e. no crow's foot).

W8862...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/lyre crown...19/7...articulated C#/G#..."Pedler Appliance".

W11407...Wood..."The Pedler Co." In oval with lyre crown on top joint and bell...S/N on top rear of top joint, and bottom rear of bottom joint...short barrel and long top joint...silver-plated keywork...blue, forged needle springs...17/6...4 upper joint trill key posts..."Pedler Appliance" (i.e. no crow's foot)...no case.

W14830...ALTO CLARINET...Wood...complete plateau.

W17337..."The Pedler Co."...adjustment screws at crow's foot.

W17392..."The Pedler Co."...Silver keys..."screw ring key adjustment"

W17490...BASS CLARINET...wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown, and "Custombuilt" art deco bell.

W19822...BASS CLARINET...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval w/lyre crown...S/N on UJ and LJ.




A-SERIES

A850...Grenadilla wood..."Harry Pedler & Co." In oval...17/6...over/under thumbrest screws...crow's foot...matching S/N on UJ and LJ.

A2915...Grenadilla wood..."American, The Pedler Co." (no oval)...Pedler-branded Geib case...s/n on LJ only...17/6...over/under thumbrest screws...crow's foot...original "The Pedler" mouthpiece.

A3395...Wood...17/6...crow's foot..."The Pedler Co." In oval with lyre crown...original Pedler branded Geib style case..."Sgt. Bob Mitchell, HQ 4th Army" tag in case liner, and "US" stamped into barrel. 

A3666...Wood..."American, The Pedler Co." (no oval)...Pedler branded Geib style case...17/6...over/under thumbrest screws...crow's foot...lyre mount on lower joint tenon socket ring.

A3893...Grenadilla...UNBRANDED...17/6...crow's foot...lyre mount on lower joint tenon socket ring...50/50 case.

A4522...Wood..."American, The Pedler Co." (No oval).

A5793...Wood..."American, The Pedler Co."...17/6.

A6909...Wood..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown, and "American By Pedler" on bell...individual top joint trill key posts...lyre mount on lower joint tenon socket ring...Geib style Pedler branded case.

A6937...Wood..."American, The Pedler Co. (No oval)...17/6...crow's foot...individual top joint trill key posts...factory lyre mount ring...Geib style "Pedler" branded case.

A7934...Wood..."American By Pedler" on Bell, and "The Pedler Co." on barrel...17/6...crow's foot...Geib style Pedler branded case.





G-SERIES

G2028..."Pennant” (Grenolite)...Lower joint only.

G2440...”Pennant” (Grenolite)...Upper joint only.

G5962..."Pedler Grenolite" (on barrel)... "Pennant" on top front of top joint...("Pedler" in banner on bell)...17/6...4 upper joint trill key posts...crow's foot.




METAL SERIES

478...Metal..."The Pedler Co." In oval w/ lyre crown...and "U.S." underneath...17/6.

7348...Metal..."Made by Harry Pedler & Co., Elkhart Ind."...with elaborate rosette motif engraving...17/6.

7672...Metal..."The Pedler Premiere, Elkhart Ind." in oval...17/6...early, bar-type crow's foot..."F" batch marks under lower trill keys...long, fully assembled case.

8565...Metal..."The Pedler Premiere, Elkhart, Ind." in oval...17/6...crow's foot...long, fully assembled case.

9727...Metal..."The Pedler Premiere, Elkhart, Ind." in oval...17/6...crow's foot...long, fully assembled case.

10033...Metal...Eb..."Harry Pedler Inc." (very unusual!)...rough, fully assembled case.

10728...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...17/6...Fully asembled long Pedler case...open logo...crow's foot.

10906...Metal..."The Pedler Premiere, Elkhart Ind." In oval, WITHOUT lyre crown...17/6 with thin bar "crow's foot...original long style case.

10992...Metal..."The Pedler Premiere, Elkhart, Ind."...17/6.

11XXX...Bass Clarinet...all metal..."Harry Pedler & Co."...Low Eb...Ornate engraving on bell with "goldwash" inside.

11141...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...17/6...open logo...crow's foot.

11551...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...17/6...Fully assembled long Pedler case...open logo...crow's foot.

11754...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...17/6...Fully assembled long Pedler case...open logo...crow's foot...original Harry Pedler replacement spring card with springs.

12070...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...17/6...Fully assembled long Pedler case...open logo...crow's foot.

13150...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co"...17/6...Fully assembled long Pedler case...open logo...crow's foot.

13693...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...17/6...Fully assembled long Pedler case...open logo...reported date of manufacture is 1935-1936 (plausible, though unsubstantiated)...crow's foot.

13769...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...17/6...Fully assembled in long Pedler case...open logo.

E13935...Metal..."Precision  Hand-Made  Harry Pedler & Co. Elkhart, Ind." engraved on bell...detachable bell...17/6...Pedler Appliance. (ODD metal clarinet with confirmed E-Prefix).

15365...Metal..."American, Harry Pedler & Co."...  "fully assembled" long Pedler case...open logo...17/6.

23603...Metal(?)…Warranty Card..."Harry Pedler and Co., Inc....Bb clarinet...Model: 167.

28300...Metal..."Student Made by Pedler"...17/6...crow's foot.

29825...Metal...open "Pedler HOOSIER Elkhart Indiana" on bell...17/6...crow's foot...fully assembled long Pedler case.

34566...Metal..."Pedler Custombuilt"...17/6...crow's foot.

35890...Metal..."Pedler American" in ornate Art Deco engraving...17/6...fully assembled long Pedler case...crow's foot.

36066...Metal..."The Pedler Co." in oval with lyre crown...17/6...fully assembled long Pedler case...crow's foot.

36070...Metal..."Student" and "Made By Pedler"...17/6...fully assembled long Pedler case...crow's foot.

37665...Metal..."Pedler Hoosier" (elaborate art deco bell engraving)...17/6...fully assembled long Pedler case...crow's foot...S/N stamped on underside of LH pinky key.

37927...Metal..."Pedler Hoosier" (elaborate art deco bell engraving)...17/6...fully assembled long Pedler case...crow's foot...S/N stamped on underside of LH pinky key and above bell solder ring.

38213...Metal..."Pedler Custombuilt, Elkhart, Ind." (elaborate art deco bell engraving)...17/6...crow's foot...fully assembled Pedler-branded long case.

41082...Metal..."Student (in script) Made By Pedler"...17/6...crow's foot...long, "fully assembled" case.

46588...Metal..."Pedler Custombuilt, Elkhart, Ind." (elaborate art deco bell engraving)...17/6...crow's foot.

46780...Metal..."Pedler Custombuilt, Elkhart, Ind." (elaborate art deco bell engraving)...17/6...crow's foot.

47780...Metal..."Pedler Custombuilt, Elkhart, Ind." (elaborate art deco bell engraving)...17/6...crow's foot.


« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 04:46:46 AM by Windsong »
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Offline Airflyte

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 11:39:12 AM »
It has been said that Harry Pedler preferred Hard Rubber, and made clarinets in metal or Grenadilla wood upon request or demand.

Windsong, I find this statement rather intriguing. If you could state your source of this info, it would be greatly appreciated!

 

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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 02:17:16 PM »
I think this is on another thread. It might be hard to read the section on ebonite. Harry was quite a proponent of ebonite. Grenadilla was special order on sopranos, rosewood appears to have been standard on basses and altos which were produced in much lower numbers.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 02:22:29 PM by Silversorcerer »
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Offline modernicus

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 06:07:17 PM »
I'll take a 207 in...C ;)
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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 07:53:17 PM »
Airflyte,
Sorcerer's brouchure is just one example, and I have read it elsewhere, as well, but admittedly, I think it was in another link I had to translate.  I will have to check.  I am not the consummate record keeper, but I have a decent memory, not that this helps with providing evidence.  I have read that Grenadilla was at times scarce and embargos and tariffs at the time made it more expensive to procure in America, so it is entirely plausible that this drove Harry Pedler to find a sustainable product. 

While just a strong hunch that will require more research, I firmly believe Pedler and Conn both had an inside line on solid rod rubber from their friend and fellow co-worker Jessie James Babbitt.
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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2017, 11:31:17 AM »
Grenadilla mostly came from France, but the French took it from African colonies. It was only difficult to get when wars made trade difficult. U-boats, I suppose? It is also true that import tariffs financed the US government before the Federal Reserve/Income tax era began. Imported grenadilla was taxed. Rubber is also imported to the USA, so the tariff problem would apply to either material.

In any case the French themselves priced Ebonite clarinets higher than ebony or grenadilla in 1902. Good wood was readily available and hard rubber was the new technology;- more durable and stable, particularly well suited for use in military bands and after many decades hard rubber clarinets still retain their original acoustic properties, if not always their dyed color.

When Pedler was making primarily hard rubber clarinets, many other USA makers were making them from grenadilla. It is not clear that the availability of grenadilla was a major factor in his material choice. I am certainly not inclined to repeating unsubstantiated rumors. That is the problem with the historical record in any division of the record. Over time, legends are taken as truths and should not be. The tendency to repeat an oral tradition should be discouraged. Without sources for a memorized oral tradition, or where we might have read something, we should be cautious. What is that adage? History is the lie most universally agreed upon. That is what happens without searching or re-searching sources. Any rumor can be written down, and that does not increase the veracity of the rumor. A great number of these rumors are in history text books at this point.

For some reason we do not see many early wood Conn clarinets. In fact I can't really remember seeing even one that was properly identified. We know that during part of that period of hard rubber Conns, Pedler worked for Conn. During that same period Bettoney and Penzel-Mueller and Pruefer were making plenty of wooden clarinets. Maybe they had a grenadilla stock pile? We really don't know.

What we do know is that the Harry Pedler catalog is a historical document, not a legend or rumor. We also know that the large number of wooden Pedler clarinets are from the Martin BIC / Pedler Woodwinds period of production. I have seen one genuine wooden Harry Pedler. I passed on it because of the number and severity of the repairs coupled with the high price. It had a diamond logo, similar to the diamond logo on the rosewood basses;- I don't think I saved any photos of it because the photos were not very good. I figured I would eventually see another one. Well;- not yet.
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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2017, 09:30:35 PM »
Solid post, Sorcerer, and firmly rooted in the presentation of fact, at that.
We don't really know *why* Hard Rubber was Harry's "material of choice".   For all we know, it may well have initially been a suggestion or even a directive from Conn to Pedler that was well received, and warmly embraced.  It may well have been Harry's idea, entirely, as well, and perhaps it was Conn who realised that Harry was onto something.  It is common knowledge that Conn was a risk taker in business endeavors, and he thrived (and dare I say, suceeded, quite often) in the chaos of uncertainty.
I have seen no documentation, anywhere which describes the desire to move away from traditional materials to Hard Rubber, and any theories drawn from any set of given circumstances without more data can only be seen at this time as entirely speculative--though speculate I will, to be sure.
There is precious little information out there on this topic, and it's garbled, indiciferable nonsense, ofttimes, regurgitated from site to site, and presented as "the truth", when it may, or very well may not be so.

We have no choice but to all begin with folklore, and work to disprove it, if we can...
If we cannot, and especially if we find documentation supporting or disproving our hypotheses, we must embrace or deny it, respectively, respectfully and responsibly.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 01:08:49 AM by Windsong »
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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2017, 09:49:24 PM »
OK, tell us all about Bibbat, Conn, and Pedler...  ::) ...

Bibbat, Conn, Pedler and a monkey walked into an opera house.....
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2017, 12:20:53 PM »
Oh, I intend to, and that's "Babbitt".  ;)

With a rare free-day, I took the opportunity to make steady headway on my many theories.  I will remain optimistic that we can soon substitute speculation for fact, or at least draw more specific conclusions based upon some additional facts. 

I discovered new (to me) information this AM, and I answered several of my questions in the process.

It does appear that the trade embargo abruptly cut off supplies from France in 1916, forcing Harry Pedler to source his stock elsewhere (Central and South America, most likely; Rosewood originates from Honduras, primarily, and rubber trees [Euphorbiaceae] grow in both Central and South America).  It's also important to note that there are no readily available records of Harry Pedler producing any clarinets between the years of 1916 and 1919, but I will forever be on the lookout for the elusive AMC. (I'd be delighted to know of anyone who has seen or has procured one). 

UPDATE:  It appears as though our own Lisa has procured not one, but two potential clarinets made by Harry Pedler and William Gronert in the interrem years of 1916-1919.  (See other posts on this forum for photos!)

I believe the reason hard rubber clarinets sometimes sold for more than grenadilla clarinets had more to do with the complex production and machining costs associated with it, and not necessarily because Ebonite was more prized, or comprised of more expensive raw materials, though admittedly--I don't know.  I have read of the volatility of the rubber rod stock making process, and its tendancy to warp and shrink during manufacturing, and I have to believe that such a grand headache could only be remedied by a compensatory pricetag.  I intend on digging more into that, as well.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 05:40:57 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Airflyte

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 01:47:22 PM »
OK, tell us all about Bibbat, Conn, and Pedler...  ::) ...

Bibbat, Conn, Pedler and a monkey walked into an opera house.....
. . . . . . oh, this will be good! . . . . . .

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2017, 08:07:41 PM »
Here is a Harry bass model 201A with the early marks and bell engraving. This is probably part of the original USQMC instrument acquisition that was in the early 1920s. I don't know the serial. The diamond logo is one not seen too often. That one has a substitute neck, most likely from a Selmer 9 model.

There is another 201A I know of that has the serial # 1103, and my 201A is serial #1126
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 08:12:14 PM by Silversorcerer »
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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2017, 01:42:26 PM »
Fantastic em"bell"ishment!  Just beautiful.  Some of Elkhart's great work.  Thanks for that.
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Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2017, 05:43:34 PM »
Fantastic em"bell"ishment!  Just beautiful.  Some of Elkhart's great work.  Thanks for that.
My next skill to learn is metal engraving, so I can do some cool stuff like that. Modern bells are really no fun at all.
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Offline Airflyte

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2017, 11:25:13 AM »
"Bumping" this thread for the timeline updates. Good work Windsong.
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