Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List  (Read 2291 times)

350 Rocket

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2017, 06:48:06 PM »
As you can see, the actuator arm on the Pedler clarinets is closer to the pad cup arm than it is on the H. N. White apparatus--the primary difference, and seemingly not enough of a "change" to enable it to be considered a separate invention.
Actually, the clarinet in the eBay ad above has been damaged or modified in some manner - the mechanism is out of position. Every other H.N. White metal clarinet I've seen has had the regulation screw closer to the arm, much like the Pedlers. The opposite end of the mechanism is different though, as it sits directly on the F#/C# keycup and lacks the screw to adjust the F#/C# venting that the Pedlers have.

The Silver King was introduced in 1928 or 1929, and the lower-priced models probably at the same time, no later than 1930. I have never seen one without this mechanism.

H.N. White did stencil clarinets, but not many. They built all of their metal clarinets in-house as far as I know.
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Windsong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +15/-1
  • Posted from my A G Bell rotary phone
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2017, 07:20:56 PM »
Upon inspection of a couple of others currently for sale, I notice that the mechanism is much closer to the cup arm as you state, and almost identical to Pedler's invention.  The opposite side of the mechanism, as you also mention is free-standing on the Pedlers, and not bearing on the C#/G# cup.  White clarinets are not as sophisticated in that regard, but the design is not enough different to qualify for a different patent, since it's activated identically with the same keywork.
I need to see if I can hunt up a patent filed by Harry Pedler.  If none exists, it may be a fair assumption that the substitution of the crow's foot became a free-for-all for those so inlined and motivated.
The Clarinet Pages forum court jester, and collector of interesting clarinets

Windsong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +15/-1
  • Posted from my A G Bell rotary phone
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2017, 08:03:05 PM »
Okay; that didn't take long, but what I found is rather bizarre, indeed.
If one clicks on the link below, and then the patent PDF, it pulls up Harry's patent, filed on 21 May, 1934 and certified on 7 April, 1936.  Why would he wait so long after inventing this "Appliance" to patent it?  I think he may have been fearful that MBIC would sell it out from under him (and perhaps they did).  Was this one of the reasons he and his son had a falling out with MBIC and left abruptly?  Timeline-wise, it certainly is plausible.  There is certainly a grand story here that perhaps none of us will ever know.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2036492.html

Even more bizarre, the first time I clicked on the patent file, it pulled up NOT Harry Pedler's patent, but the Bercioux patent, instead, from 1902.

Explain that!
The Clarinet Pages forum court jester, and collector of interesting clarinets

350 Rocket

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2017, 04:08:45 PM »
But if the Pedlers left in 1931, this would indicate that Harry Pedler was still required to assign his patents to his former company.

And even so, H.N. White was building clarinets with that mechanism before 1930, so if there was any agreement to allow White to use it, it would've been with Mr. Pedler alone.
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Windsong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +15/-1
  • Posted from my A G Bell rotary phone
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2017, 05:12:28 PM »
I appreciate your perspective, and perhaps you are right.  I know nothing of patent law, or the legalities of securing a patent post-production and implementation.  My take on it was that things were heating up, so to speak, and he felt that if he did not secure a patent, he would lose the rights to the invention.
The Clarinet Pages forum court jester, and collector of interesting clarinets

Silversorcerer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +21/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2017, 04:39:37 PM »
http://clarinetpages.info/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1003.0;attach=1467;image

If that link works it shows how Penzel Mueller Pruefer approached this particular adjustment, about 1915. It's not visible from the front and it's tiny. True art is the concealment of art?
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

350 Rocket

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2017, 09:01:36 PM »
I appreciate your perspective, and perhaps you are right.  I know nothing of patent law, or the legalities of securing a patent post-production and implementation.  My take on it was that things were heating up, so to speak, and he felt that if he did not secure a patent, he would lose the rights to the invention.
I don't either, but this Bettoney ad might shed light on something:
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Windsong

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +15/-1
  • Posted from my A G Bell rotary phone
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2017, 09:08:05 PM »
Fascinating.
Because my knowledge of metal clarinets grossly inadequate, I wonder who, in particular, they were pointing the finger at.
The Clarinet Pages forum court jester, and collector of interesting clarinets

Silversorcerer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Karma: +21/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2017, 05:26:08 PM »
It probably was not Pedler. The primary Bettoney patent feature is the C# cross key that actuates the Eb ring key, allowing a forked left hand fingering for Eb. It's an easy way to get the best feature of a seven-ring Boehm without all the fuss.

Metal clarinets were made early in the 19th C. In Europe, so who knows who did what first. Chapelain and Siour both had French patents on certain metal clarinet features (which wouldn't protect within the USA).

Who in the USA made metal clarinets before 1925? Follow that line of reasoning.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum