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Author Topic: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.  (Read 238 times)

Silversorcerer

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2017, 03:38:05 PM »
This is probably the best explanation I have seen for the use of 432, and it debunks some of the most skeptical views about the mathematical relationships. My own proclivities are neutral regarding a preferred pitch standard, but this frequency (432) does have a prominent place in a very interesting geometric number system that might not be as arbitrary as some skeptics claim:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FY74AFQl2qQ
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Airflyte

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2017, 03:59:08 PM »
This is probably the best explanation I have seen for the use of 432, and it debunks some of the most skeptical views about the mathematical relationships. My own proclivities are neutral regarding a preferred pitch standard, but this frequency (432) does have a prominent place in a very interesting geometric number system that might not be as arbitrary as some skeptics claim:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FY74AFQl2qQ

I haven't watched the video yet but the comments so far are interesting!
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Dibbs

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2017, 02:15:02 AM »
 ::)

Most modern Buffet clarinets are made to play A=442.

If A=442 then the frequency of the the key most clarinets are made in, Bb, is 234.  This is 432 backwards!

since 432+234 = 666, the number of the beast, it is clear that Buffet is in league with the devil.

 :o


andybeals

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2017, 09:20:49 AM »
Aw, come on, everyone knows the real number is 616. 

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A newly discovered fragment of the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament indicates that, as far as the Antichrist goes, theologians, scholars, heavy metal groups, and television evangelists have got the wrong number. Instead of 666, it's actually the far less ominous 616.

The new fragment from the Book of Revelation, written in ancient Greek and dating from the late third century, is part of a hoard of previously unintelligible manuscripts discovered in historic dumps outside Oxyrhynchus in Egypt. Now a team of expert classicists, using new photographic techniques, are finally deciphering the original writing.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/revelation-666-is-not-the-number-of-the-beast-its-a-devilish-616-5349692.html
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Airflyte

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2017, 01:54:09 PM »
Got to get this thread back on the road!  *grabs steering wheel*

If you want to actually HEAR what a song that you may like @ 440 sounds like @ 432, try the program - "Audacity" You can edit a song by reducing the semitone (-0.32) which is equal to ( -1.818%) in pitch.

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Silversorcerer

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2017, 04:50:23 PM »
In the Sonic Geometry vid, there is no reference to C=256 or a Schumann resonance, because that is all wishful thinking and fuzzy math at best. Notice that these are the "math" and pseudoscience angles that are attacked, but it's the the wrong argument.

What is not fuzzy at all is math based on geometry, and this geometry is the basis for deriving the number 432, and the ratios resulting from geometric progressions are harmonically related, and produce a (just) major triad, etc., so the math is not fuzzy because geometry would be the same geometry regardless of Schumann.

What frequency is C in this system? Whatever it is it's derived from A, and probably it would be the just minor third, but it has nothing to do with C=256Hz or scientific pitch.

I am keeping an open mind regarding A432, and I encourage experimentation and observation. While I am not aware of any direct link between the geometry and a natural constructive resonance at 432Hz, I would have to plead ignorance;- I don't have enough information.

I do find it somewhat compelling that the history of pitch inflation generally includes correction points and Is observable is that "something" resists raising the standard, whatever the historic reasons have been for raising it.

The idea that the "second" is an arbitrary length of time assumes that the day is arbitrary, but it is not. Measuring frequencies in cycles/second is therefore not arbitrary either. Both the second and the Hertz are derived by dividing the day into equal intervals, based on the same mathematical system of geometry. The second has a complex definition now as an atomic vibration quantity, but that is just a comparison of that atom's frequency to a division of the day. One asks if the length of the day changed, would the length of the second be revised? No, and the reason is because for the purposes of science, we need an unchanging interval. The length of the day does change, but ever so slowly.
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Airflyte

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2017, 05:22:34 PM »
Well worded reply Sorcerer. Experimentation and observation are essential.

My apologies to Andy and Dibbs. I did not mean to disregard your posts. I guess if a certain tone is associated with "enlightenment" it's no surprise that another tone would be on the darker side. The Triad chord has a reputation. Some say that the devil's in the details.
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Dibbs

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 02:04:06 AM »
...
I do find it somewhat compelling that the history of pitch inflation generally includes correction points and Is observable is that "something" resists raising the standard, whatever the historic reasons have been for raising it.
...

It's singers that complain when it gets too high.  The repertoire starts to get out of their range.

And whatever that "something" is, it hasn't resisted very well.  Historically informed performances today are most often at A=415.  There is evidence that the baroque pitch, particularly in France, was considerably lower than this at around A=392.  There are old oboes that play around this pitch.  There are old lutes where the holes in the bridge are so small that gut strings would break if tuned as high as A=415.  Currently we may well be a whole tone above late 17th century tuning.

andybeals

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2017, 10:37:23 AM »
No offense taken.  I've had more than a few run-ins with cults, so when people start hand-waving when it's time for them to justify (as do the YT videos on A432 I've listened to/watched) and they claim it's Scientific without providing a basis, I start saying certain Anglo-Saxon words in my head and turning them off. 

I adore Early Music and am well-aware of the shifts in tuning over time.

There has also been a trend towards tempo inflation, despite the metronome's invention in 1816.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/was-beethovens-metronome-wrong-9140958/

Radiolab's "Speedthoven" podcast

Now, Singers.  That's a horse of another color.  (The last two soloists I played along with were super, though.)


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“A firm rule must be imposed upon our nation before it destroys itself. The United States needs some theology and geometry, some taste and decency. I suspect that we are teetering on the edge of the abyss.”
― John Kennedy Toole, A Confederacy of Dunces
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 10:40:34 AM by andybeals »
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noneyet

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2017, 01:51:52 PM »
Historically informed performances today are most often at A=415. 

So when I earlier posted about tuning my guitar down to around A=415 I should have said  I was performing historically. THAT's the validation I was looking for  ;D
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Silversorcerer

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2017, 03:55:40 PM »
It makes sense that singers would ultimately put the brakes on pitch inflation;- the human voice is a natural thing after all. Just considering the reported extreme values of A, 432 falls somewhere between the extremes.

According to a recent source I read, Baroque music early performance is at 415, classical at 430, and that seems to me an imposition of standards on a past that might not have been so standard.

With any wind instrument, the weather is a factor. A metal drum is probably less affected in pitch. A brass instrument is easy to adjust within 25 cents. Strings are adjustable, but still need a standard like a tuning fork to be tuned. Woodwinds? Tune to rest of the orchestra to the oboe.

Dissonant temperament is more demonic to my ear than a different pitch reference.
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Dibbs

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2017, 01:48:53 AM »

According to a recent source I read, Baroque music early performance is at 415, classical at 430, and that seems to me an imposition of standards on a past that might not have been so standard.


Yes, I missed out the word baroque in my last post. 

It was definitely not so standard in the past but the adoption of a standard that's in the right ballpark avoids all the problems the early players had.  6 differently pitched corps de rechange for flutes was not unknown.


andybeals

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Re: Lowering concert A by 8 Hz.
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2017, 09:05:14 AM »
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