Imitation and flattery or obfuscation?

[Silversorcerer]

I wondered if I should even bring this up, but there's nothing like a bunch of shady monopolists except a bunch of shady monopolists: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/

[Silversorcerer]

If someone is looking for this web site "The Clarinet Pages", the top three links lead to the WWBB. The first link to our "Clarinet Pages" is number 7 down. Internet piracy is alive and well? Obviously they simply cannot withstand ANY competition or diversity of ideas.

[Airflyte]

I just enjoy this forums lack of ads and "other things you may like"  click bait.

I can then focus on clarinets and the company they keep - of course, I get side tracked by saxes, oboes and the occasional flute.


*edit* 

oh, and further side tracked by violin. Yup, I have some kind of something for instruments.

[DaveLeBlanc]

It is a little concerning that we are missing out on likely tons of possible members because they get led to a different place.
It's really a shame, there's much we could gain.

[Silversorcerer]

The other side of the coin (cha-ching!) is what Mark Charette gain$ by selling ad $pace by using the name of this web site and forum, which has been long established. No one need ask if that is an ethical practice, the more important question is whether or not it is a legal practice.

Here's how it works. I put "Clarinet Pages" in Google. The first link takes me here: http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/

There are no ads at that first link, which is mostly a table of contents for the whole woodwind.org. Any other link from that page has ads in the headers.

The business plan? http://test.woodwind.org/Sponsors/

That's real candy stuff there. They aren't buying a web ad, they are "sponsoring" his page, which is getting traffic by blatantly stealing the name of a long established competing web site.

Legal or not, he's pulled some shenanigans with his domain registrations and keywords to get the top Google listings for searches for Clarinet Pages. I knew that Charette was in the "business" of supplying "information" and quite frankly I am not surprised at all. I wonder how many of his sponsors understand what he is up to?  ;)

Something else I know about Google. It searches by text and not by graphic images containing words. We have a logo that says ClarinetPages. Whenever those words appear on Charette's site, it is text, so every time he uses that text, Google reads it. It reads it more frequently there than here, and sends people there. That's how he has hi-jacked ClarinetPages. Whatever new logo we come up with, It should be made of text fonts over a color field in a table and that should be repeated on every single link we have here.

[Silversorcerer]

Here's what his whole plan is, notice that in the text on this page "The Clarinet Pages" appears in text four times (including the title line): http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/

Welcome to the The Clarinet Pages. I hope you will enjoy looking around the site. We have a little of something for everyone: a very active Bulletin Board, information about clarinets and associated equipment, tips, techniques, and personalized help, lists of retailers, scores, mailing lists, medical resources, MIDI files, printable music and manuscripts for study, along with Classified Ads, Sherman's Corner and other miscellaneous resources.

The Clarinet Pages is a sponsor-supported site. Please visit the sponsors by using the links on the right hand side of the page, and let them know that you found them by visiting us. If you wish to become a sponsor please visit Becoming A Sponsor for further information. Woodwind.Org also hosts Web sites using the latest Open Source technologies. We supply Web, mail, and domain name service for one low annual fee, and you automatically become a sponsor if you wish. See Woodwind.Org Webhosting for more information.

Woodwind.Org will soon be branching out into other commercial areas to help keep the pages running, such as CDs, sheet music, and Woodwind.Org branded accessories. We will also be carefully expanding into the other instruments that make up the woodwind family (along with the horn, our "adopted" cousin.

Stay tuned for more quality services that are coming in the new The Clarinet Pages.

Mark Charette's plan for world wide woodwind information domination? And apparently we are just a funnel for his web traffic and ad cash cow.

[DaveLeBlanc]

Time to fight fire with fire, I suppose and put "Clarinet Pages" in every other sentence.

Depending on whether or not Clarinet Pages is trademarked, and by who, there could be ground for a cease and desist sort of thing, but I'm not too familiar with legal proceedings.

[Silversorcerer]

I am going to put The Clarinet Pages in every single post from now on. And I think I might also find ways to mention bassoons, flutes, oboes, any woodwinds, and perhaps "horns" along the way.

Every once in a while I Google search terms that should lead here. This was what turned up this morning. He hasn't had it arranged like that for more than a month or so.

[DaveLeBlanc]

I am going to put The Clarinet Pages in every single post from now on. And I think I might also find ways to mention bassoons, flutes, oboes, any woodwinds, and perhaps "horns" along the way.

Every once in a while I Google search terms that should lead here. This was what turned up this morning. He hasn't had it arranged like that for more than a month or so.

Good plan. I could put a stick post up top asking posters to mention The Clarinet Pages at least once.
Do you think changing our signature blocks to "The Clarinet Pages" would count as text for google's engine?

[Silversorcerer]

What Charette did was give Google exactly what Google looks for on that page. He puts "The Clarinet Pages" in text numerous times and then explains all about what the site is intended to include, then there are all the links, etc. We have the word clarinet appearing probably over a hundred times, but nowhere do we have The Clarinet Pages written that way in text. I have some other ideas about this particular phenomenon. It's been bugging me because I really do not like the modus operandi that Charette is using siphon off page views for advertising purposes. I'm taking this to private messages at this point. I'll be seeing you.



- David Powell, posting as Silversorcerer for Phil's original "The Clarinet Pages" forum

[Dibbs]

He's had the words "The Clarinet Pages" on there since 2002.  He's probably thinks this site has hijacked his name.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020802233506/http://www.woodwind.org:80/clarinet/

[Silversorcerer]

That's interesting indeed, Dibbs. Here it isn't called the clarinet bulletin board, and coincidences do occur with web site names. Charette chose woodwind.org as his official name, Phil chose ClarinetPages.net. In the many times, and it has to be at least hundreds of times, that I have browsed the WWBB or linked to posts there as a result of various searches, this week is the first time I encountered the WWBB "The Clarinet Pages" page. If it has always been there it has not always been as visible to the search engines.

It might be worth noting that even though the list of resources on that page has been updated since 2002, no link to ClarinetPages.net has been added. Perhaps that is not an intentional slight either. Most of the links in the list are to international resources, those in the side bar are internal WWBB links. Maybe we would have to ask for a link there? My experience seems to be that this specific page has only recently become more visible in search returns.

In the past few years every once in while I have Googled "Clarinet Pages" to see how much visibility this site and forum have and I have not had Google return links to the WWBB before, or at least not in the top ten or so that I paid attention to. Those searches always returned Phil's page at the top.

The change in search results indicates that something has changed. I still think a contributing factor is text vs. graphic use of the words, and whether there is any intention involved is an important point. If that page goes back to 2002, intention is not part of the equation. I certainly don't want to mischaracterize someone's intentions and I am glad you brought the archived page to attention here.

In any case what this forum is about has at least equal validity and I think it is in order to address factors that favor search results that direct to the WWBB. The small changes we have made yesterday have already had an impact in Google search returns. Yesterday searching for "Clarinet Pages" returned this web site toward the bottom of the first page of results at #7. Today, ClarinetPages.net is #4 from the top, includes link #5, and link #6 is to this forum specifically.  :)