Trying to learn the probable maker of a French-made "Velvetone" alto

[pdxreeds]

Hello! I've enjoyed reading posts on this forum for years but this is my first time writing my own.

Out of curiosity, I recently bought an old alto clarinet on Craigslist. It had some condition issues but the price was low enough that it didn't seem like too big of a risk. I had never played an alto before but thought it would be fun to try out. After some time in the shop... it still has some issues, but it's definitely fun. In fact I had so much fun with low notes on this instrument that I ended up also impulse buying a bass clarinet on Craigslist. :-)

The seller gave me two bells with the instrument. The original bell was engraved "Velvetone", but has a bad dent and a damaged tonehole that makes it unplayable. He had found a Vito bell that fits the horn and works fine so that's what I'm using for now.

Other then the "Velvetone" on the original bell, the only identifying marks are:

• On the top joint, near the neck, it reads "MADE IN FRANCE"
• On the bottom join, near the bell, there's a number which I think is "643".

My understanding is that Velvetone was a stencil brand name, used to sell instruments made by many other manufacturers, and that the name probably dates this instrument somewhere in the 1930s-50s. I'm hoping that someone here might recognize some detail of the keywork that could give a hint as to the manufacturer and maybe a more specific time range.

One interesting thing about this instrument is that it has a double register vent, which maybe provides an additional hint?

The instrument has a long, ugly crack in the upper joint which seems to have been successfully repaired (for now at least). The main issues I have with it now are that there's something going on with the left hand pinky keys which makes notes played using them sometimes just... not play. This most often happens with middle B, but if I use the right hand pinky key fingering it works fine. Also, at some point in its history someone moved the thumb rest VERY high; I've been propping the instrument up to play it (I might need to get a peg bracket installed).

Thanks in advance for any information you may have!

[pdxreeds]

More pictures of my mystery clarinet.

[pdxreeds]

Even more pictures of my mystery clarinet.

[Windsong]

That's a nice looking horn.

I am no Alto expert by a mile, and only have one--a Pedler, but I see a lot of 1930s key details here.

It's understandably a French horn from your report, and the interwebs say this Stencil name was manufactured by Robert Malerne, but that thumbrest us undeniably German or Czech--not that someone could not have changed this small feature at some point.

Malerne made fine clarinets, and he stencilled for many, many manufacturers.  Take it for whatever it may be worth, but it has been said that his stencils were often of higher quality than his own self-branded clarinets.

[pdxreeds]

That's a nice looking horn.

I am no Alto expert by a mile, and only have one--a Pedler, but I see a lot of 1930s key details here.

It's understandably a French horn from your report, and the interwebs say this Stencil name was manufactured by Robert Malerne, but that thumbrest us undeniably German or Czech--not that someone could not have changed this small feature at some point.

Malerne made fine clarinets, and he stencilled for many, many manufacturers.  Take it for whatever it may be worth, but it has been said that his stencils were often of higher quality than his own self-branded clarinets.

Thanks for this information! Especially interesting to get your point of view on the vintage of the keywork. You say that the thumbrest is undeniably German or Czech... can you expand on that? Does it just have to do with the shape of it?

I think it definitely seems fair to think that the thumbrest may have been replaced at some point, especially since it was most definitely moved into the rather awkward position it is in right now (and the screws mangled as well as a "gift" to the future.) The setup right now makes me wonder if this instrument was played by an individual with an exceptionally large thumb. :-)

Do you think there is any way of knowing for sure if it is Malerne-made? From what I had been able to see poking around the interwebs myself, it seemed like many French-made Velvetone horns were by Malerne, but not all of them. Ultimately I guess it's not possible to know for sure, but I get really curious about this stuff.

[Windsong]

Yes; an assessment based upon shape.  That reverse-teardrop or diamond baseplate is a rather typical German or Czech feature, though it could be Italian,  I suppose.

(Here is a similar one from Fernando Roth) https://www.ebay.com/itm/117495519258?_skw=alto+clarinet%2C+old&itmmeta=01M6DCGM77KV4QQD2ACHZT7PXY&hash=item1b5b47581a%3Ag%3AzO4AAeSwkx5q0s2l&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA8CHNgUiiE%2FjQhlDTaMiAde%2Fpfu8OF%2FCBGR2Kuvzw9KYZeN%2Fc%2BvaR5hkjhDm6R17bGj7oJCohVvJmDJKR3yV0nf5O%2FjZCyRUaTJtjVxS%2BdRRdRreJGuahdt7Xvm%2FDPJXUEXunm20Bs9iBLQKg0tLVb9oZiWpoLxzg9yoTMQK0pfwSVtnu3wztiAuViTc1C6qEWYbNZ087g78DG0C1qB3%2BuPMsiO1RdHNyvYGbYI%2F367oyfXGGiyP3yP3D7oGYfRtB5jVOnZVGnl1Q3WboysGrUWjkGDngQHsSREQYRka%2FFCnUcoAy71mSmskaafkxR77lLw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-bDwqyzaA&keyword=alto+clarinet%2C+old&sacat=0&relatedSearch=true

I know of no certain way to determine whether or not Robert Malerne actually made this, other than to compare keywork precisely to another alto known to have been made by Malerne, unless serial number data becomes available and it probably burned in a fire 70 years ago, or got tossed hecause nobody understood the potential future value of stencil data.