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Clarinet Roadshow => All about Clarinets => Topic started by: modernicus on April 26, 2017, 04:10:13 PM

Title: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on April 26, 2017, 04:10:13 PM
Finally here! Note the salt spoon pad cups! 8)(http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p781/clarinetC30/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0014_zpsonl5t74w.jpg) (http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/clarinetC30/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0014_zpsonl5t74w.jpg.html)(http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p781/clarinetC30/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0015_zps3rxq6crg.jpg) (http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/clarinetC30/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0015_zps3rxq6crg.jpg.html)(http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p781/clarinetC30/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0016_zpsinxnelm0.jpg) (http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/clarinetC30/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0016_zpsinxnelm0.jpg.html)
Early pair, shown with my circa 1870 Buffet Crampon Bb:(http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p781/clarinetC30/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0017_zps6q0tjksd.jpg) (http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/clarinetC30/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0017_zps6q0tjksd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: Silversorcerer on April 26, 2017, 06:14:15 PM
What a lovely couple.
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: DaveLeBlanc on April 26, 2017, 06:22:30 PM
Incredible. The workmanship on those oldies is amazing.
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: Windsong on April 26, 2017, 06:27:17 PM
Just gorgious...
I was not aware enhanced Boehms had been around since the 1850s.  I certainly NEVER see them.  I don't even see 17/6s from that time.
Fantastic collection, Mod.  Those two are museum quality pieces.
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on April 26, 2017, 06:55:17 PM
This is the only salt spoon enhanced Boehm I've ever seen or heard of. 
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on January 21, 2021, 08:53:11 AM
I was looking at some more Buffet Crampon history- apparently they did not at the "&Cie" until 1859 when Goumas and Leroy were involved.  This instrument has it.

https://www.horniman.ac.uk/agent/agent-2999/

See this circa 1850 Buffet Crampon (enhanced with forked E♭₄/B♭₅, but pre donut key) labeled as pre-Goumas- suggesting he had something to do with the development of the donut variation of this enhancement.

https://collections.ed.ac.uk/mimed/record/18268?highlight=buffet+crampon

Given that Hoeprich says Thibouville-Buffet was in operation from around 1857-1863, and the Shackleton collection Thib.-Buffet Boehm is listed circa 1860 (I have an identical one to this, it seems plausible).  It seems likely, then, that salt spoon pad cups on Boehm clarinets were out of fashion by around 1860-1863 sometime.

https://collections.ed.ac.uk/mimed/record/17940?highlight=thibouville+buffet+

I would then date this Buffet Crampon & Cie enhanced A as around the 1859-1860 timeframe from the information I can find to date.

Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: LarryS on January 21, 2021, 09:10:54 AM
I love the salt spoons!
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on January 21, 2021, 09:16:49 AM
I love the salt spoons!

I know, how cool looking are they?!  This one is definitely the prize of my collection.  It took a while for everything to come together where I could get one.  I "only" had to watch internet auctions like a hawk for like 10+ years, not get outbid, and have an intermediary in France who could ship it to me (seller did not ship to USA).
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: windydankoff on January 25, 2021, 08:33:26 AM
Thanks for showing this one! What is the purpose of the "donut" key vs. a normal ring key?
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on January 25, 2021, 12:38:44 PM
Thanks for showing this one! What is the purpose of the "donut" key vs. a normal ring key?
It can be partly covered by just pressing the edge.
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: Dibbs on January 25, 2021, 02:03:58 PM
Thanks for showing this one! What is the purpose of the "donut" key vs. a normal ring key?


Cross fingered Eb/Bb in combination with the extra ring.
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: Dibbs on January 25, 2021, 02:08:22 PM
Thanks for showing this one! What is the purpose of the "donut" key vs. a normal ring key?
It can be partly covered by just pressing the edge.

They'll be sharp if you use it like that.  At least on the one I tried.
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on January 25, 2021, 04:50:02 PM
LOL, yeah, I'm probably not remembering any of this correctly- I'll try my Bb that has it to try to remember how to use it as it's intended.  I play the clarinet from time to time, but never use that feature, now that I think of it though, there was something that I finally found I could use it for...
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: DaveLeBlanc on January 25, 2021, 11:43:41 PM
Have you guys done a test and seen if the donut key actually has any noticeable impact on intonation versus the non-donut Eb fingering?

(I haven't, but I can't imagine it does much, or else it would be ubiquitous today, right?)
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on January 26, 2021, 05:35:14 AM
Have you guys done a test and seen if the donut key actually has any noticeable impact on intonation versus the non-donut Eb fingering?

(I haven't, but I can't imagine it does much, or else it would be ubiquitous today, right?)
I'm the anti-Jay Leno, I have all these old clarinets (instead of cars, wait, I have those too...) but I've forgotten or never knew how they worked.  Also, I'm not rich or famous.  Luckily I am funnier (not difficult).
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: Dibbs on January 26, 2021, 09:19:33 AM
Have you guys done a test and seen if the donut key actually has any noticeable impact on intonation versus the non-donut Eb fingering?

(I haven't, but I can't imagine it does much, or else it would be ubiquitous today, right?)

It's just a different way to implement the 7th ring.  No better or worse than the usual way. 
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: modernicus on January 26, 2021, 03:34:47 PM
Thanks for showing this one! What is the purpose of the "donut" key vs. a normal ring key?


Cross fingered Eb/Bb in combination with the extra ring.

OK, yep, that works!
Title: Re: Circa 1850s Buffet Crampon enhanced Boehm A with integrated barrel!
Post by: Dibbs on January 27, 2021, 10:25:36 AM

It's just a different way to implement the 7th ring.  No better or worse than the usual way.

I take that back.  There is a small advantage in that the D#/A# cross key is excessively high with the normal full boehm arrangement because it lies on top of the extra vent cup.  With the doughnut that key can be at the normal height.