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Clarinet Roadshow => All about Clarinets => Topic started by: modernicus on January 03, 2021, 12:45:52 PM

Title: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: modernicus on January 03, 2021, 12:45:52 PM
Now that the weather is cold and the virus still rages, I have more time on my hands and luckily, have my health and livelihood intact for the moment- so I why not concentrate on playing, repairing and collecting clarinets again for a bit? I have several clarinets on the way- one is a 1860s/1870s Buffet Bb Boehm via Germany. I think it's identical to the one I have already, except it has all unplated brass keywork and fittings (I think somebody had the brass keys and posts nickel plated later on the other.) I paid too much, since it looked really dry, dirty and cracked in the pics, but hey...I'd been watching it for a long time and they finally were dropping their price.  The other is a Thibouville Freres probably from before the mid '30s (single post for LH pinkies, shared A/G# posts). I don't see these earlier Thibouville Freres very often, plus it's complete with matching branded mouthpiece
and was at a low opening bid with no competition.  Looks to be in nice, untouched condition, just dry.  From what I can find, Thibouville Freres was doing business from 1909 or 1911 to around the 40s or 50s?, after that was the collaboration with Masson and the last living Thibouville heir from that line.  Oh, BTW, I picked up a vibratory tumbler and some rouge infused walnut shells as Windy had been using, because polishing all these keys individually ain't happening...
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: windydankoff on January 03, 2021, 12:49:04 PM
Good! I think you'll be grateful for the tumbler-polishing method. Keep us posted with some photos.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: modernicus on January 03, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
Yes, thanks for the suggestion for that polishing method- I was tearing my hair out yesterday trying to polish keys, then I broke a key mounted needle spring by catching it on the buffing wheel...ugh.  Going to work on it now.  Pics should be coming of the Eric Petterson no2 soon, that one's gonna turn out beautifully, I think.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: Airflyte on January 03, 2021, 02:35:05 PM
Clarinet sprees are great. Congrats!

I have dipped my toe into the refurbishing pool myself. Dug out an old Carl Fischer Buffet 17/6 Boehm and completely disassembled the lower joint, cleaned, oiled and reassembled. A few hiccups with pivot screws but it went back together quite well.

 Going to tackle the upper joint with new corks next week. I may have to seek advice for this job. I will be using the clearance cork received from Music Medic that Grumpy mentioned in another thread.

Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: modernicus on January 03, 2021, 03:49:57 PM
Clarinet sprees are great. Congrats!

I have dipped my toe into the refurbishing pool myself. Dug out an old Carl Fischer Buffet 17/6 Boehm and completely disassembled the lower joint, cleaned, oiled and reassembled. A few hiccups with pivot screws but it went back together quite well.

 Going to tackle the upper joint with new corks next week. I may have to seek advice for this job. I will be using the clearance cork received from Music Medic that Grumpy mentioned in another thread.
Oh, exciting!  The clearance cork was of slightly different texture or something?  It'll probably work fine.  Actually applying it is easy, what needs fine tuning is the thickness on some keys to adjust the opening, sometimes balancing tuning vs sound quality, especially the C#/G# on some clarinets, I find.  Also, figuring out the height of the register key opening and the A/G# are also areas to concentrate on the upper joint.  I get everything sealing up, then play, adjust, repeat if something doesn't work or sound right in regards to mechanism coordination or key opening height respectively, until I get it to my liking.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: Windsong on January 04, 2021, 06:45:13 PM
Nice acquisitions, Modernicus!  I too got bitten recently by the acquisition bug, though I am taking it slow and cautious.  Two years in clarinet collector's rehab was rough!  ;D. 
We all  have our own respective specialties here, and I think that's neat.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: modernicus on January 04, 2021, 08:51:16 PM
Nice acquisitions, Modernicus!  I too got bitten recently by the acquisition bug, though I am taking it slow and cautious.  Two years in clarinet collector's rehab was rough!  ;D. 
We all  have our own respective specialties here, and I think that's neat.
Wise words.  I think I came off the rebound of a stinging auction loss last November. I got beaten on a really cool 1840s or 50s Auguste Buffet Jeune Boehm.  The final price was right given it's significance, but surprisingly high nonetheless- I think sometimes by posting/compiling all this stuff, we're contributing to a collecting roadmap of sorts and a bit of hype for certain types of clarinets we discuss.  Somebody has to be the one that takes the risk, matches the research, etc...I see some of our discussions have thousands of views.  I had forgotten that some info and pictures I posted here were used and credited to me in a French instrument blog that I sometimes visit.  Information I contributed to on another forum ended up being cited in an ebay auction.  So, I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too, after all...
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: windydankoff on January 05, 2021, 05:18:52 AM
You're absolutely right, Modernicus. Let's all do our part to spread false information.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: Windsong on January 05, 2021, 06:14:42 AM
Absolutely, gents.  I see people quote me on Ebay auctions as well, often misattributing characteristics to their own junkers or student models that they believe are worth a million bucks. 
And honestly, it is a double-edged sword, but I began my research on Pedler for the benefit of everyone, and have certainly seen an elevated interest, and as was mentioned, our posts see a lot of views.  I just looked at those stats, and was frankly alarmed.  If we have done our jobs correctly, our "barn find" aquisitions will be greatly minimized in the future, but we will have generated interest in others that sustains these fine old gems.  I'm okay with that. 
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: modernicus on January 06, 2021, 06:06:28 AM
Well, I've done it again- got something else on the way, very rare- a Camille Thibouville clarinet.  Camille was the son of Eugene Thibouville I (who was a son of Martin Denis Thibouville), and father of Eugene II and George (the brothers comprising Thibouville Freres).  George later partnered with Maurice Masson.  Info courtesy Thibouville.com.  I think we have discussed before, one of the old factories on an island in the Eure river has been turned into a charming, rustic retreat type hotel as museum, with some original machinery present, documents, and instruments on display.  I would love to visit there sometime.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: Airflyte on January 08, 2021, 01:38:24 PM
You're absolutely right, Modernicus. Let's all do our part to spread false information.
.

Ok, let’s start by claiming that early clarinets are most likely “blown out” and not to bother with them.

They are best left for museum collections.


Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: Windsong on January 08, 2021, 07:07:32 PM
Well, I've done it again- got something else on the way, very rare- a Camille Thibouville clarinet.  Camille was the son of Eugene Thibouville I (who was a son of Martin Denis Thibouville), and father of Eugene II and George (the brothers comprising Thibouville Freres).  George later partnered with Maurice Masson.  Info courtesy Thibouville.com.  I think we have discussed before, one of the old factories on an island in the Eure river has been turned into a charming, rustic retreat type hotel as museum, with some original machinery present, documents, and instruments on display.  I would love to visit there sometime.
That sounds like an incredible acquisition.  I look forward to seeing pics and hearing your assessment, once it arrives.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: modernicus on January 09, 2021, 08:18:21 AM
Well, I've done it again- got something else on the way, very rare- a Camille Thibouville clarinet.  Camille was the son of Eugene Thibouville I (who was a son of Martin Denis Thibouville), and father of Eugene II and George (the brothers comprising Thibouville Freres).  George later partnered with Maurice Masson.  Info courtesy Thibouville.com.  I think we have discussed before, one of the old factories on an island in the Eure river has been turned into a charming, rustic retreat type hotel as museum, with some original machinery present, documents, and instruments on display.  I would love to visit there sometime.
That sounds like an incredible acquisition.  I look forward to seeing pics and hearing your assessment, once it arrives.
Thanks, it is definitely rare and very cool. I put an offer in as soon as I saw it because I've never seen or heard of another one, not even Shackleton had one. Also, the Thibouville family instruments are a specific interest of mine.  I could only find an old auction listing for a Camille Th. cornet- that's it as far as info on a specific instrument of his goes.  Now that the pictures are fully functional again (thanks Phil!) I will be excited to share some with you guys.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: Windsong on January 09, 2021, 12:05:52 PM
I recall that Thibouville is one of your passions. I did quite a bit of research on the Thibouvilles and related families a few years back, and was fascinated by their dynasty, and legacy.

I sold an 1880s HP Bb Rosewood JTL to someone in Japan a couple of years back for $175.00.  It was exceptionally well made, and in excellent condition.  It's refinement, given the times in which it was made, was nothing short of extraordinary.  I miss it.
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: LarryS on January 15, 2021, 01:33:32 PM
I know very little about clarinets so I like to read these posts about historic instruments. Its an education. So I googled Thibouville clarinets as I'd not heard the name. And I found this. Listed as a Thibouville, but the logos looks like Buffet crampon!
https://www.bacmusicshop.com/thibouville-freres-wooden-clarinet.html
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: LarryS on January 15, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Ah I just found this. The logo for Camille Thibouville idls very similar to that of BC

http://iremus.huma-num.fr/marques-instruments-musique/590
Title: Re: Well, I'm on a clarinet spree again...
Post by: modernicus on January 15, 2021, 06:25:33 PM
Ah I just found this. The logo for Camille Thibouville idls very similar to that of BC

http://iremus.huma-num.fr/marques-instruments-musique/590

Yep, I just found that site recently and posted it to the research forum- it shows Camille had 2 different brands, the one you linked to with "Thibouville" in a an oval Cartouche with stars above and below- I've seen some of those, they're rare, but I've seen some- one is for sale right now.  I didn't know until I found that site it was a Camille Th. brand.  That logo looks similar to really early Thib. Freres IIRC.  It's also similar to Eugene Thibouville's mark, naturally.  However, there was a mark with Camille's own name, as well.  I've never seen or heard of another clarinet with his actual name as the brand, I could only find info about an old auction with cornet with a Cam.Thib. mark.  I saw a couple of other clarinets recently with different Thibouville variations.  One just said "Thibouville Paris" with the words forming vertically opposed arches, the other apparently "Tibouville" spelled differently ( being sold as a counterfeit, but is not).  Thibouville.com explains that there were many family members involved in instrument mfg over a long period of time, centuries it seems, some of whom spelled their family name differently, but all part of the same family.  I'm still really extremely keen to know which Thibouville and Buffet collaborated mid 19th century (or married?!) to create Thibouville-Buffet, since those two families are of special interest to me.  I have a Thib.-Buffet Boehm, only other one I could find any info on is in the Shackleton collection. I've seen some pics of a few Thib.-Buffet flutes, maybe a non-Boehm clarinet.  The owners of the converted Thib. factory hotel claim to have identified at least 41 different mark/brand variations.  I concentrate on Boehm system, just to keep the collecting can of worms from being opened too wide, so only some of those will overlap with what I collect.  I would like a better Eugene Thibouville, and a Martin Thibouville (there was one offered recently, but it sold before I decided). I already have 4 Jerome Thibouville Lamys.  Came close to buying that JTL metal that was for auction recently, as well.