The ClarinetPages Forum

Quote from: Windsong on October 15, 2026, 04:22:26 PM

Quote from: 350 Rocket on October 15, 2026, 02:27:20 PM

Quote from: Windsong on October 15, 2026, 11:37:41 AMThis is the earliest P-Series I have seen; P2626.  This is pre-war model from 1936-1938, I believe.

I believe the wartime break in production happened somewhere between P9000 and P12000, so my guess is it's a bit earlier.

So, you are thinking pre 1936?  It certainly could be.  Annual production was never very high, per model line.

Interesting that you have seen two other older ones. Especially with the interchanging of spellings.  We have established, pretty universally, that models without the "E" are the pro models.  Such a devious distinction.  I wonder if they had not yet established these terms back in the early 30s.

I surmise that with the onset of the Depression followed by the acquisition by Martin followed by the departure of Harry Sr. and Harry Jr., there wasn't much continuity in product planning. Somebody at Pedler seemed to like alliteration (Premiere, Premier, Paramount, Precision) and maybe they wanted to keep that on the higher end of the market.

Quote from: Windsong on October 15, 2026, 11:37:41 AMThis is the earliest P-Series I have seen; P2626.  This is pre-war model from 1936-1938, I believe.

I've seen two earlier - P2437, a standard 17/6 Premier, and P249, a Premiere.

I believe the wartime break in production happened somewhere between P9000 and P12000, so my guess is it's a bit earlier.

Three major questions:

1. What's your budget?
2. What style(s) of music do you play?
3. What's your location?

And I suppose I should also ask if you have a preference for material, but your budget may define that.

You will usually be better off buying something that's already been serviced rather than buying something of uncertain condition and having it worked on, but depending on what you have for repair shops locally, you might be able to make the latter work out.

Quote from: Jeabrams on September 21, 2026, 11:00:43 PMThis is why I'm a little curious about the actual provenance of this one. I cannot tell if it was originally a lower or upper level example. Even though it was used in a school marching band, there were many instruments that found their way to schools after the alto lost its support in professional bands and orchestras across the spectrum.

Between a 1925 price list and a 1927 catalog, at that time Bettoney only sold one alto clarinet - the 950, made of Bettonite, listed at $165 in both documents. I don't think there would've been much of a market for "lower grade" harmony clarinets then anyway.

Bettoney serial numbers are largely beyond modern comprehension - they had so many separate sequences that, save for some early metal models and the one plastic one they had, so far nobody has been able to discern anything from them.

Bettoney advertised that they were the first manufacturer to build altos and basses in the U.S., so I'd surmise that this one was built in the U.S. by Bettoney and not in Europe.

Conn started making altos and basses in 1923, so Bettoney must have started before that. Having a dual register mechanism almost certainly pegs it as being pre-WWII, but all else I know is that Bettoney stopped making harmony clarinets prior to 1958.

"Silva-Bet" was a trademark used only for professional-grade all-metal-bodied soprano clarinets.

My rough estimate is that it's from 1932. There isn't much information on Kohlert, but with the handful of data points I have, that's what I can extrapolate yours to.

There is or was a serial number chart for these compiled many years ago, but it's highly erroneous.

For the longest time, I told myself "Don't get involved with vacuum tube junk."

But, one of those pandemic-era beer-fueled eBay purchases...
You cannot view this attachment.

Johnson Messenger I, probably from 1965 given the date codes on components. Hooked up to my base station antenna it did receive, but I think the microphone cord is shot since it wouldn't key up. Gave me a slight shock at one point and it looks like there might be something missing inside, but I have too many other things going on to poke around in it. It does have its full complement of crystals for five channels though - 1, 9, 10, 14, and 19.

The LL model was introduced in 1960, so that one must be from 1960-62.

As for the other one, I'd guess the first half of the 1950s. Probably equivalent to or the predecessor of the 476 "Classic" since it isn't a Symphonie or Dynamique.

Selmer using decals for 15+ years and on over half a million clarinets means there's a lot of unbranded Bundy Resonites out there. If you see enough of them, the "tells" get easy enough to spot.

They aren't the greatest student clarinets, but they're serviceable and predictable - and plenty good for a beginner.

Regrettably, I didn't see this while the auction was live, but take a look at this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/188783579891

Early Vito Reso-Tone brochure from 1962 or 1963, showing the original logo and listing out the available models - plus a comparison against "Brand B. R." (gee, I wonder what that could be?).

Most of the images are gone, but the archived version of the old ClarinetPerfection Buffet page is better than nothing. There's a little bit of explanation regarding the Carl Fischer catalog numbers.

Quote from: Windsong on July 26, 2026, 02:51:35 PMI am wondering if this is Zyloid?
It looks a bit different than what I am accustomed to, but also appears to be phenolic of some sort.
(https://shopgoodwill.com/item/271591422)

I don't think so - it looks like a postwar 58N. I'm reasonably confident those had an Ebonite body (when I get around to servicing the one I have, I'll probably have to level a tonehole and can find out for sure) with plastic barrel and bell.

Very unfortunate. First the Conn Loyalist, now ClarinetPerfection. The old ClarinetPerfection site was a trove of information.

Hopefully some Woodwind Forum members find their way here.

The impermanence of social media makes it nearly impossible to search for and find information posted previously, and places like Reddit are rife with misinformation. The rise of AI chatbots has only made things worse. Forums were traditionally well-moderated enough to keep a fair level of trustworthiness.

I don't know if anyone used Bakelite per se. (I rather hope not, since true Bakelite contains a filler which was sometimes asbestos.)

I've read of "ebonol" which was paper-filled and used for fingerboards/fretboards and, supposedly, woodwinds, but no information on when it came about.

The earliest plastic clarinet I'm aware of is the Pan-American Zyloid from the latter half of the 1920s. It doesn't seem quite like Bakelite to me, but the wire-brushed finish might be impacting that.

The plastic clarinets of the '50s are clearly a different material than modern ones. I have a Grenolite with the lower tenon broken off as well as a '50s Bundy stencil with the center socket broken off, and the brittleness of the material is clear. The way the plastic sometimes flakes away around serial number stamps is a sign as well.

There were at least a couple different plastics then. The earliest plastic Leblanc (the Normandy Reso-Tone) had a noticeably heavy plastic with a surface that isn't entirely smooth. Conn, ironically one of the last to fully change from hard rubber to plastic, seems to have used a similar material for the barrels and bells of their hard rubber student models.

Quote from: ghostler on July 23, 2026, 08:05:25 AMIf my 1965 Vito clarinet is stencil, does anyone know who made it or the parts it was assembled from?

It wasn't a stencil - Leblanc USA made their clarinets wholly in-house in Kenosha, using a keywork design and bore geometry similar to French Noblet and Normandy models.