The Honest Seller Thread

[Windsong]

No point in crying over spilled milk.  Just implement a protocol for handling future aquisitions, and you'll probably be fine.  The human race is a hearty one, generally speaking.

[Silversorcerer]

Thyme heals all wounds;- at least those caused by mold spores.

The two ingredients I have added to my vegetable oil based bore oil mixture are thyme oil and tea tree oil, both available in 4 oz. bottles from an Amazon seller. I've recieved a few clarinets that had some foxing on the them and I treat these with straight thyme oil. It has a smell something like turpentine, almost like petroleum distillates. Camphor is another oil that will suppress any kind of mold or fungus growth and apparently it also slows down rust and key oxidation as well. Mold is like cancer, best dealt with if you get to it early.

To a lesser extent it is also a problem with brass instruments and there is even a description of it as a disease that musicians get sometimes from this. Believe it or not, there was a 19th advertisement for new violins that characterized old violins as containing possibly lethal fungus pathogens. In general I don't think that ad had much affect on the vintage violin market where older is generally perceived as better. You don't blow through a violin so maybe it's not a big deal.

[andybeals]

Are you talking about "saxophone lung" aka "bagpiper's lung"?

[Silversorcerer]

Are you talking about "saxophone lung" aka "bagpiper's lung"?

I think that might be it. The recommendation on the trumpet forum was rinsing the horn periodically with rubbing alcohol or ethanol. That probably doesn't work for clarinets for many reasons.

As a precautionary measure, I put a fairly stout dose of anti-microbial essential oils into the bore oil mixture. I might add a few other oils as well. Different ones hit different target microbes. Most also repel insects.

Hard rubber and plastic can get moldy too. I guess with those you might have to use a disinfecting soap of some kind after taking the keys off.

[andybeals]

Same thing affects brass players, too: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/study-brass-wind-instruments-allergic-lung-disease/story?id=11569520

This worries me, too.  I have mild asthma, allergies (mold among them), and a propensity to go from bad allergies, to bronchitis, to pneumonia.  Hopefully, I won't see that progression anymore, now that I know that it's OK to hit my inhalers to prevent it.

[Silversorcerer]

I had a serious bout of chronic respiratory infections from about 2002 to 2011. I was catching every minor virus that came along and typically that would progress to bronchitis is about a week. There was hardly any time that I was not sick or recuperating from bronchitis. In the winter of 2010 - 2011 I nearly died of pneumonia and it took months to recover. After the fall of 2011, I haven't experienced ANY nuisance respiratory infections. The only thing that I changed was my water source. I changed from municipal water to filtered rain, more as a practical necessity than as a conscious choice.

That was my experience with suppressed immune function. My problems weren't related to playing vintage horns. I still play vintage trumpets and at the time that I had chronic infections I wasn't playing any woodwinds yet, so my problems were not related to any vintage instruments. All of my older brass instruments were sterilized with extremely hot water and automobile detergents (to remove oil and grease) before I played any of them.

I concluded that the municipal water supply contained chemicals that somehow lowered my immunity. Atlanta's water is better than most municipal sources, but it is chlorinated and also fluoridated. Others might have different experiences, but since I have been drinking water that is from the sky, I have not had even a common cold that lasted longer than two days. Rain starts out with far less impurities than water that has already hit the ground. I set up my collection system by the guidelines for a safe collection system published by the state of Texas (Georgia has none). I wasn't shooting from the hip to get safe drinking water from rain, I went by well established guidelines.

I also was plagued with extreme allergic reactions for most of my life. I took weekly shots for desensitization when I was a child. It didn't have much of an effect on my allergic reactions. Those reactions were to mold, pollen, certain cosmetic ingredients, and some unknowns. I no longer have those allergies.

There is one physician who is a proponent of improved hydration and I think he is on to something. His clinical findings were that several serious health problems were most plausibly the result of chronic dehydration and most allergies, according to his theory, were the result of dehydration.

Still, it is just good common sense to keep the instruments we play free of pathogens and there are many ways to do that. Mold spores are practically everywhere and take hold whenever the humidity and temperature are mold friendly so it is definitely a situation where an ounce of prevention is the best strategy.

[DaveLeBlanc]

Just this past week, i began to sprout warts on my fingers. Ive never had any before and i cant imagine why id get them now.
As warts are caused by HPV virus often entering through wounds, my only conclusion is that my habit of accidentally poking myself with needle springs may have led to an infection of some kind.
I wish someone told me how dangerous the business is for ones health...

[Windsong]

This from:
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/features/viruses-cause-skin-warts

“The most important thing when you see a wart is getting rid of it immediately,” Brodell says. Warts can spread on your body if left untreated.

“Every wart is a mother wart that can have babies,” says Brodell. “You need to get rid of all visible warts whenever they appear so you don't have more spread.”

Most dermatologists agree that people can start with home remedies or wart removers from the drugstore.

“I usually advise trying at-home treatments -- first with salicylic acid or clear nail polish or tape or any other method that suffocates the virus,” Johnson tells WebMD.

[Windsong]

Okay, we all know Eddie Money plays sax, and he's actually a mighty fine player.
Could this Buescher have been his?
I say, "It's plausible". 
Judge for yourself.  Either way, it's a hilarious posting, and a nice sax, as long as you don't mind split B and Bb bell keys.  I certainly don't.  I actually prefer a sax set up this way.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-The-BUESCHER-Tenor-Saxophone-With-EDDIE-MONEY-Enagraved-On-Bell-No-Res-4-/222173696706?hash=item33ba9592c2:g:trEAAOSwvg9XdxZohow me the Money!

[Windsong]

Are you talking about "saxophone lung" aka "bagpiper's lung"?

Interesting that while reading this morning's paper, there was an article on this exact issue, aptly titled, "Death of a Bagpiper".  Apparently, it is often referred to as Farmer's Lung, Hot Tub Lung, Pedgeon Fancier's lung, Bagpipe Lung, Trombone Lung, and Saxophone Lung. 
I can see how bagpipes hold in mold spores, as I can see how the valves and slide on a trombone would also trap bacteria and mold, but for the life of me, I cannot see how a Saxophone would cause issue, unless one never removed the reeds, and never washed out the mouthpiece.  Obviously, anything a sax could harbor would be easily replicated in a clarinet, oboe, bassoon, etc.--and to a greater degree, as moist wood is a perfect breeding ground for mold and bacteria, whereas brass is not, inherently.

[Silversorcerer]

When I was in junior high, I ran water that was near boiling down the bell of my cornet about every two weeks. Brass instruments are essentially brazed brass plumbing. Extremely hot water is safe, unless it is an early lacquer. Silver plating is not a problem. I don't do that as often with the trumpets I play now. The best practice is to keep the instrument clean.

Thorough swabbing of the bore after playing and regular treatment with a safe antimicrobial should greatly reduce the risk of such infections. In the case of instruments that have been in storage, a thorough cleaning is in order followed by the same kind of regular maintenance. I am going to look into the idea of camphor crystal packets because this does double duty and reduces key oxidation.

We could all be in fear of shower stall fungus too. The easy answer is keep your shower (and you horn) clean. Typically you'd clean a moldy shower stall before taking a shower. Treat an instrument the same way. Right now I'm testing pure white thyme oil for effectiveness at eliminating mold inside a case that had a musty odor like mildew. The clarinet inside is hard rubber so it should be easy to clean. What I am guessing is that the fumes of the thyme oil will do the trick without the need to saturate the case interior. In this particular experiment the case lining will need to be replaced due to wear. I just want to see if the thyme oil is effective.

Thymol is a chemically processed water soluble version of thyme oil. When I worked in archival document / paper art conservation, we used crystalline thymol to treat documents that displayed foxing (mold). It was very effective just by leaving the documents in a sealed chamber with the crystals for a few days. Natural thyme oil has the same properties but has to be carried in an oil. Thyme oil mixed into the bore oil seems to make a lot of sense to me. Beware of the chemically processed thymol crystals. Thymol is mildly carcinogenic. The natural thyme oil is not.

Saxophones? "How many saxophone players does it take to clean the shower......" 

There are areas in a sax, particularly the goose necks of the tenor and baritone that are not swab friendly. If there are corks and pads on those, or steel sprung mechanisms you can't really dunk them in steaming water like I do with my trumpets and cornets and other valved brass. Likewise, you can't spike a bore oil with thyme and tea tree. An alcohol soaked swab might be in order for those goose necks. Bassoon bocals have the same problem and thin silk swab is used to dry them out and clean them.

The other side of it is keeping your immune system healthy. That might be primary. Most of these infections are opportunist microbes that can't get a toe hold in a healthy individual. Eat clean, drink clean, live clean and you are more likely to stay clean.

[andybeals]

An article from 2013 on a case of "saxophone lung" developed by a clarinetist who didn't clean his clarinet for 30 years:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/saxophone-lung-clean-clarinet-instrument-woodwind_n_4221368.html

I managed to gross out a bandmate with this last season and he finally took his clarinet into the shop after having had it for what was probably ten-ish years.  In April, he upgraded to a Edgware (wooden, mid-fifties, really dense wood) that wasn't a year out from having a full re-pad.  I'm betting that he's swabbing his (newer) instrument regularly now.

[Windsong]

Unless I'm just doing a 15 second run through the keys, I always swab my clarinets after play, remove the mouthpiece, and oil the bores 4 times a year.  The case does not get closed at home for 24 hours after a serious play, even after swabbing (with a clean wool swab).  I clean my swabs and hang them to dry every time I use them.  I don't typically use silk as wool does a better job (though it does tend to leave lint, which is not preferable.  Perhaps I should chase with silk.).

[Silversorcerer]

The best thing about that article was that it established that if one DOES clean the instrument, the health problems clear up.

[DaveLeBlanc]

The best thing about that article was that it established that if one DOES clean the instrument, the health problems clear up.

Luckily I don't really play that much anymore.  If I did, I'd probably have a forest of mold growing in my trachea or something