Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: The Honest Seller Thread  (Read 16648 times)

Offline DaveLeBlanc

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3228
  • Clarinet-ing since 2012
    • View Profile
    • Watson Musical
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Silversorcerer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2016, 06:03:36 AM »
This comes from a detailed description: "The case quite worn, handle is torn off and has a very musty smell.
The clarinet is cracked, broken, worn, and has a musty smell."  ;D

It really didn't look that bad in the photos;- rare Oliver Ditson, but I don't need another project right now. Great keys on that one it looks like.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline DaveLeBlanc

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3228
  • Clarinet-ing since 2012
    • View Profile
    • Watson Musical
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 08:01:46 PM »
Here's a golden description for a golden clarinet:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WOOD-CLARINET-/272321645421?hash=item3f67a28b6d:g:YXQAAOSweXhXmLJ~

" the case is in poo condition "
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Silversorcerer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 08:48:38 PM »
Here's a golden description for a golden clarinet:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-WOOD-CLARINET-/272321645421?hash=item3f67a28b6d:g:YXQAAOSweXhXmLJ~

" the case is in poo condition "
;D

That'll make coffee come out your nose! I think I bought that one a couple of times.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Windsong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 05:28:46 PM »
A few months ago, I passed on Henry Gunckel clarinet, pre-1910, because of only ONE issue regarding the condition.  It was beautiful, and the photos were quite good, BUT it had been cracked in half, snapping the upper joint's lower tenon off in the lower joint's upper socket.  (That type of repair is way beyond my capabilities to repair, at present)

I just HAD to ask how this happened, and the seller, having mentioned "one family ownership since new", divulged in a PM that his grandfather wrapped it around his great uncle's head during an arguement, and his great uncle was so hard headed that it snapped in half.
Had it been posted on the actual listing, it would have been priceless, but even in a PM, it was amusing.  (Yes, the uncle lived, and apparently went on to put in 89 good years on this earth, hard-headed and all.)
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Silversorcerer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2016, 06:53:25 PM »
On many of the instruments that have been set aside for decades, the reason is some kind of failure or damage resulting in procrastinated repair and the owner passes eventually disposes of it in that condition. That's usually how an instrument is when I get it. Sometimes I can reconstruct the incident that took an instrument out of action. I once bought a salvage Gibson classic guitar C-0 that someone had put their hand through the top of it or someone's head through the top of it. Gibsons have the toughest neck joins in the industry. The neck join was solid, the ribs were completely in tact, one brace snapped inside and the body split twice along the edges of the bridge all the way to the shoulders. I re-glued the braces that came loose during the impact, installed a new brace where it broke out, cleated the cracks and closed it all up and it was solid as a tank again. I could reconstruct the event but what I imagine is someone accidentally falling on it or stepping on it if it were left on a floor.

And I learned what a bent guitar tuner meant in terms of damage. You learn this when you try to straighten a bent guitar tuner. It's always one of the end tuners, never the middle one or the one closest to the neck. And it takes two pair of pliers to straighten a bent tuner stem. These are very hard steel. That means it took equal force to bend it. That guitar got hit on the headstock with great force to bend the tuner. It probably fell over sideways. When I bought my salvage Gibson SG standard, it had a bent tuner. It also had a broken neck repair. The bent tuner occurred when the guitar fell and the neck got broken. It became clear to me what it meant after that when I saw guitars with bent tuners. Look for loose neck joins on these and damage to the ribs (cracks) on either sides of the neck where the twisting force was concentrated when the headstock hit the floor.

So what does this have to do with clarinets? I recently purchased one for salvage that had a thumb rest attached with gorilla glue or some similar XYZ glue. You learn to translate these things. What would happen if your thumb rest suddenly failed while you were marching or on stage? Look beyond the thumb rest if it has been re-attached. This one with the gorilla glued thumbrest also has a tenuous repair of the whole LJ socket, which could be described as "shattered" like the one that hit the fellow over the head. I surmise that this is where the impact was concentrated when the thumb rest failed and the player dropped the instrument. The bell survived, the tenon survived, but the UJ socket took the hit. This particular clarinet plays well despite the damage. I'm pondering ways to structurally reinforce the socket.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Windsong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 01:39:41 AM »
Good account, and I too play guitar (no better than the next bloke, but I can defend my self fiercely with some 12 bar.), so I can appreciate your analogies.
Regarding tenon repair, while all situations differ, the only way I know to truly repair a shattered tenon is to remove it, and with a lathe, reconstruct one out of similiar materials, and counter sink it into the so-affected woodwind.  It's a tedius, arduous process, requiring a steady hand, sound mind, and a lot of measuring, but a good repair is often stronger than the original. 
While I understand, precisely, the dynamics involved, I am not yet ready to undertake such a repair, as I am not currently set up with the right work space or tools to affect such a repair.  Tenon breaks are, as I have heard them referred, "profit killers",  because they are so time consuming, and it's easy to go astray and further destroy the wood. These types of repair should be reserved for either truly rare woodwinds or ones where the sentimental value outweighs profit margin.
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Silversorcerer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 10:18:01 AM »
I think I have a good matching vintage lower joint to substitute. I could use it as a socket donor and do a socket graft but what is the point of cutting off the top of one lower joint that is already in one piece to glue to one that is in several pieces? The best result possible is a grafted lower joint and the donor appears to be identical in both dimension and keywork. A socket graft would be a challenge for me, but in this case it's one that I can avoid. It will have a different mark and serial, but in this case a Pruefer/Moennig hybrid will be a good working result.

It's not always the case, but in this case it makes a lot of sense to just swap in the good lower joint, freshly re-padded and regulated by Phil, which is currently paired with an upper that cracked so badly and warped that it could not be restored. This is that Moennig Bros. clarinet that Phil recommended for a lamp base. So far I have used the bell, a couple of keys;- and now I will take one of the LJ keys from the clarinet with the busted socket, fit it back onto the Moennig LJ (which I had borrowed a key from that is identical) and substitute the whole in tact lower joint. That allows me to have a structurally sound and complete seven ring Pruefer UJ with a structurally sound Moennig LJ. I typically would not mix makers like this but Pruefer, Moennig, and Penzel Mueller were making essentially identical instruments at the time these were made (circa WW1). So here's what happened with that. I borrowed first an LH5 lever key from the Moennig to fix a Penzel Mueller with identical keys. Then I happened on a second seven ring Pruefer with a good UJ, playable lower joint with a weak socket repair. I want to put the Moennig LJ on it but I gave one of the Moennig's keys to the Penzel Mueller. So now the Pruefer will donate a key from it's busted LJ back to the Moennig LJ and it will go to make the Pruefer solid.

Meanwhile the upper section of the broken Penzel Mueller LH5 lever key has already left the bone yard and is installed on my new hundred year old H. Bettoney bassoon that had a broken and missing key. I can mix and match and recycle parts whenever it makes sense to do so. One day I will build some unusual instrument from nothing but stray parts of others.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Windsong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2016, 08:34:33 PM »
Aah, the Frankenstein!  Frankly (pun intended) I think that is an excellent use of resources, and I believe I would do precisely the same.  The fact that they fit and work is testament that it's not criminal.
You are returning life to several instruments, and that's always moving forward, as far as I'm concerned.

Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline DaveLeBlanc

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3228
  • Clarinet-ing since 2012
    • View Profile
    • Watson Musical
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Silversorcerer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 03:23:35 PM »
"This is a used Commodore clarinet. It is mechanically sound but will need pad work and 1 cork if you intend to play it. It would make a nice decorative  piece or lamp.  The clarinet was made in the England and will still be playing when the big box store Chiner one is in a land fill. "

 ;D ;D ;D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371604203135?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Silversorcerer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2016, 06:28:09 AM »
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadet-Clarinet-NEEDS-REPAIRS-/262582475638?hash=item3d23229b76:g:hnsAAOSw-itXtNJr

I think I need to get my dog to check this one out.

"Clarinet is in good shape

On the outside. BUT smells old."
 :o

- Could be a deal breaker.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline DaveLeBlanc

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3228
  • Clarinet-ing since 2012
    • View Profile
    • Watson Musical
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2016, 10:38:09 AM »
I'm sort of convinced I've developed some sort of lung problem with the past several years of huffing mold, spores, and musty cases...
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Windsong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
    • View Profile
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2016, 04:43:27 PM »
As someone who is extremely sensitive to mold spores, you bring up a valid concern.  And it should be a valid personal concern for all of us. 
When I receive a "new" clarinet (or any woodwind, for that matter), I open the case in a well ventilated area--preferably outside, so I can evaluate it.  If it's not bad, I will set about cleaning it, and I quarantine the case to the garage in inclement weather, and the bright hot sun in good weather.  I am an ardent supporter of Doctor's Products case cleaner.  It has emulsifying agents that neutralize bacteria and mildew, instead of sealing them in and masking the bad smells. 

Mold spores can and WILL kill some people, and they do no good to any of us. 

An ounce of prevention...
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline DaveLeBlanc

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3228
  • Clarinet-ing since 2012
    • View Profile
    • Watson Musical
Re: The Honest Seller Thread
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2016, 06:57:56 PM »
I sure hope I don't start developing issues.  I'm too young for this!  Then again, I sort of put it on myself...
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States