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Author Topic: Identifying an Emperor  (Read 5265 times)

Offline Kaytee73

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Identifying an Emperor
« on: January 03, 2017, 02:40:16 AM »
Hi everyone,
I have just purchased a B/H emperor !
There are no markings/logo usually on bell and top joint
All I know is it is a B/H this by the pivot screw design
But after that I am lost,  how do I know whether it is an emperor or one of the other many models regent etc. manufactured by Boosey and Hawkes.

If anyone could help I would be very grateful

Many thanks. Kaytee73.   First time of asking a question

Offline Windsong

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2017, 07:20:43 AM »
Welcome, Kaytee73,
Start by posting pics, and we can help you figure out what you have.
There is a marked difference between the more common Edgeware, 1-10 or 2-20,  the less common 4-20 or 8-10, and the pinnacle models:  926 or 10-10 Emperor/Imperial/Symphony line.
If you really have an Emperor, I hope that it is in good shape, and that you got it for a good price.
You will need a unique, wide bore mouthpiece for the .600 bore B&H horns if it did not come with the original, as using a conventional mp will warrant less than ideal tonal results.  The Emperor line was good enough for some of the best clarinetists in the world, including Benny Goodman, so if that's what you truly have, you have a gem.
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Kaytee73

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 08:07:17 AM »
Hi Windsong

Thanks for your help, I will try to attach some photos of the clarinet in question and hope that some-one may be able to identify it.
It is a wooden Boosey and Hawkes. and hopefully an Emperor

many thanks
Ken

Offline Kaytee73

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2017, 08:15:05 AM »
some more photos

I'm getting the hang of this now  ;)

Offline Kaytee73

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2017, 08:18:53 AM »
another photo


Offline Windsong

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2017, 12:05:11 PM »
Well, that is most certainly Reginald Kell's keywork--100% certain.  It's my favourite keywork for a soprano, hands down, as it's well sprung and very fast, and easy for the novice and pro alike to play.
I find it unusual that I can make out no markings at all on your horn.  (Are there really none at all?)  Did it come to you in a Boosey case?
Believe it or not, even the 1-10 used the same forged nickel silver keywork, as did the 2-20--a grossly undervalued advanced intermediate horn, in terms of quality and tonal resonance.  Both have the voice of authority, while being very inviting.  The 1-10 is a student horn, but is probably as good as the best student horns on the planet due to sheer design strength and longevity.  Kell-keyed B&Hs are absolute Sherman tanks.  The lower joints of all such adorned models have extremely solid post locks, and wood bodied Kell B&Hs all have nickel capped tenons. 

But I digress; back to the sleuthing...

It is apparent that you have at least a 2-20, and as I know of no stencils ever made by B&H, it is clearly a Boosey.
It may be an emperor, but they were typically stamped.  The 4-20 and the 8-10 all used this Kell keywork, whereas many early Edgeware models used horrible Mazak keyware, and I've heard reports that some Regents did too, though I have never owned one, and cannot confirm that with certainty.
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Offline Kaytee73

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2017, 12:34:41 PM »
Windsong,
That was very educational, thank you for all your comments, I could do with some of that knowledge myself

Kaytee73


Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2017, 02:14:53 PM »
That oddly elongated first trill key is something that I never really liked myself.  Seemed to get in the way too often, but then again I hardly ever use the trill keys anyways.
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2017, 03:29:26 PM »
I find that one elongated key quite useful, as I seldom ever use the top joint sliver key, LOL.
 ;)
I suppose I should, but decades of learned behaviour are tricky to break the habit of.
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Kaytee73

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 12:42:38 AM »
Thanks Dave, windsong,
Now we are in the swing of finding answers, the pillars that carry the spring and key, I find it hard to get the size of the thread, it looks like about a 4BA thread, but it's more corse than that,  it looks like it should be a whitworth as the Americans are still in that arena
It is a help when replacing a pillar to know the answer, if you might know I would be grateful in finding out

Many thanks to ALL

KAYTEE

Offline Windsong

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2017, 07:36:20 AM »
I cannot tell you the thread.  Every country liked to use something different, it seems.
I just try different screws until I find one that works.
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Offline Kaytee73

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 11:00:10 PM »
Windsong,
Thanks anyway, not an easy one that, it would be nice to keep in contact with you

Kaytee

Offline Windsong

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 10:34:07 AM »
You know where to find me.
 ;)
I have several B&Hs, so if you will tell me what post you need a screw for, I will see if I have a spare, or at least attempt to figure out where one can be obtained, whether it's compatible with French or American threads, etc.
I know how frustrating finding fasteners can be for vintage woodwinds.  It's absolutely obsurd that they are not widely available.  I understand the concept of Economy of Scale, but the vintage woodwind realm is big enough to support a couple of fastener reproduction firms.
I recently bought a decent sized French NOS cache of screws from the 1950s, and have already begun putting them to use. 
Most professional technicians (which I am most certainly not) turn their own fasteners, which I find as equally preposterous as the notion that no one has stepped up to make high quality reproductions.
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Kaytee73

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 09:48:05 PM »
Windsong,
That's a very kind offer, but as someone who repairs clarinets ( more to keep myself functioning at my time of life )  I come accross these pillars quite often, there is certainly no conformity in thread size,
And a simple thing like that can stop you finishing a clarinet, some are almost self tapping threads !!

Thanks for now.  Kaytee

Offline Windsong

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Re: Identifying an Emperor
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2017, 12:53:53 PM »
<<And a simple thing like that can stop you finishing a clarinet>>
I know this to be the case, myself.  Thankfully, I finally found the correct screws for my Thibouville Albert, and will have it playing again before long.

Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.