Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.  (Read 38883 times)

Offline mechanic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2017, 09:01:25 PM »
Mechanic,
I suspect that the below listed clarinet is the clever logo you mention, used from 1984-2000?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332229234837?ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F0%252Fe11051.m43.l1465%252F7%253Feuid%253D6bbf78d54399499f9a93887731ab3acc%2526bu%253D43208945403%2526loc%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252F332229234837%2526sojTags%253Dbu%253Dbu%2526srcrot%253De11051.m43.l1465%2526rvr_id%253D0&ul_noapp=true

[/quote]

That's the one I've always referred to as the Lyre Logo.  That and the Oval Vito seem to be in the majority. 

Something on that one you don"t see on many Vitos it the music holder receiver as part of the center ring.  Only 2 out of the 100 or so I've looked at have that, and that one is the only one with the serial number shown.

Just for grins, I started a spreadsheet with serial numbers, logo, model # if known, and a few other bits of info.  The more I collect, the weirder the data looks.  I'm finding 4, 5, and 6 digit all numeric numbers, 4 and 5 digits followed by a letter, and the ever popular letter followed by 5 digits which we know from the official serial number list repeated.  I had hoped to work backwards from the known list, and may eventually figure something out. 

In the meantime, I did find this ad from Leblanc USA claiming the Vito line was established in 1953.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 09:07:36 PM by mechanic »
For Phil's  " The Clarinet Pages " forum. https://clarinetpages.info/

Offline Airflyte

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • CONNoisseur of Vintage Ebonite
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2017, 07:03:42 AM »
I have never seen that ad before. Thanks for posting.

I think "Mel's" Drive-In was a California based business. Oh well, "Arnold's" Drive-In was closer to Kenosha !   ;)
"The Clarinet - in a class of its own"

Visit Phil Pedler's Clarinet Pages NEW website!
https://sites.google.com/clarinetpages.net/clarinetpages

Offline Airflyte

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • CONNoisseur of Vintage Ebonite
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2017, 11:34:04 AM »
Here's a Vito with what can be considered the "Rare" logo. I just do not see many of these . . .  https://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Vito-Reso-Tone-Clarinet-4136E-w-Goldentone-2-MP-39967309.html

Serial number: 4136E

"The Clarinet - in a class of its own"

Visit Phil Pedler's Clarinet Pages NEW website!
https://sites.google.com/clarinetpages.net/clarinetpages

Offline 350 Rocket

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2017, 04:17:39 PM »
I wrote the blog page referenced earlier which has apparently caused confusion. I can answer any questions on that, but I'll start with some Vitos I've kept notes of that have crossed my bench in one form or another.

Vito Reso-Tone
4983E (Big V logo)
9946F (oval logo)

Vito Reso II
1427

Reso-Tone 3
21550 (with original warranty card)
35482
55300
C77639

Clari-Tone
3914 (oval logo)

Lyre logo
A29658


I can partly clear up the model number confusion earlier in the thread. The model numbers in the '70s and early '80s were actually 7112 and 7114 according to price lists. They were changed to 7212 and 7214 when the serial numbers were reset in 1984. The latter ones have the model number stamped next to the serial number, the former do not.

Two positively-confirmed dates: The "Reso II" was trademarked as having been first used in commerce (meaning either when the name was first applied to a product, or when the so-named product was first shipped from the factory) December 27, 1962. The Clari-Tone name was first used July 21, 1964.

I can't find any evidence of the Clari-Tone in the 1974 price list, but the VSP is there. I've noted Clari-Tone serial numbers from 0968 through 8867, all with the oval stamping, and then one at 91358 which might have had a very faint lyre logo above the Claritone name, and the "swoopy" C trill key.

I've recorded examples of the original Reso-Tone from 3054E to 9745J, the Reso II from 1427 to 3069, the Reso-Tone 2 from 01443 to 15686, and the Reso-Tone 3 from 05727 up. The earliest Lyre logo I've seen is at A25474. The early ones had only the outline of the lyre engraved, as opposed to the thick stamping that most had.

Not to muddy the waters by getting the Normandy involved, but I'm 100% certain that there was a great deal of Normandy production before the Vito clarinets were introduced. The keywork differences and the clear difference in the type of plastic used in the first run of Normandy models confirm it in my mind, along with the fact that the first Vitos appear with serial numbers in the middle of the second Normandy series.

Sorry for the novel; hope this brings more clarity than confusion...
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Offline Airflyte

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • CONNoisseur of Vintage Ebonite
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2017, 07:32:58 PM »
Good info 350 Rocket  (Olds fan?) 

I just wish the serial number system for these Vitos was a little easier to pinpoint a manufacture date!

Thanks for posting.  I'm glad others are recording data on the Vitos.
"The Clarinet - in a class of its own"

Visit Phil Pedler's Clarinet Pages NEW website!
https://sites.google.com/clarinetpages.net/clarinetpages

Offline 350 Rocket

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2017, 05:21:37 PM »
Yes, I have a '77 Cutlass.

Leblanc USA seems to have used a different sequence for every variation until 1970 or thereabouts when they rolled it into one series for all plastic clarinets. I think the early Holtons had their own as well (a $15 Holton Collegiate started this for me in the first place).

Here's what appears in the price lists I have:

1974
7112Reso-Tone 3$189.50
7112EbReso-Tone 3$209.50
7114Lyre$199.50
7114D"Deluxe Outfit"$219.50
7114PPlateau$275.00
7115Stubbins$214.50
7118Semi-plateau$219.50
7177VSP$299.50
7100"Sonnet"$182.50
Carry-all case $10.00

1976
7112Reso-Tone 3$199.50
7112EbReso-Tone 3$235.00
7114Lyre$214.50
7114PPlateau$305.00
7115Stubbins$257.50
7118Semi-plateau$255.00
7177VSP$335.00
7100"Sonnet"$194.50
7110"Sonnet"$194.50
Carry-all case $12.00, Vandoren mouthpiece $15.00

1977
7112Reso-Tone 3$209.50
7112EbReso-Tone 3"On request"
7114Lyre$224.50
7114PPlateau$314.50
7115Stubbins$269.50
7116"Reso-Dyne"$229.50
7118Semi-plateau$239.50
7177VSP$350.00
Carry-all case $12.00, Vandoren mouthpiece $15.00
Holton clarinets were re-introduced in 1977.

I have no idea what the "Sonnet" is. I've searched and never found anything of the sort. The "Reso-Dyne" has a brushed "wooden" finish and I'm guessing it's otherwise the same as the Lyre model. The Stubbins and semi-plateau were Reso-Tone 3 models.
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Offline mechanic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2017, 09:47:49 PM »
I wrote the blog page referenced earlier which has apparently caused confusion. I can answer any questions on that, but I'll start with some Vitos I've kept notes of that have crossed my bench in one form or another.

Vito Reso-Tone
4983E (Big V logo)
9946F (oval logo)

Vito Reso II
1427

Reso-Tone 3
21550 (with original warranty card)
35482
55300
C77639

Clari-Tone
3914 (oval logo)

Lyre logo
A29658


I can partly clear up the model number confusion earlier in the thread. The model numbers in the '70s and early '80s were actually 7112 and 7114 according to price lists. They were changed to 7212 and 7214 when the serial numbers were reset in 1984. The latter ones have the model number stamped next to the serial number, the former do not.

Two positively-confirmed dates: The "Reso II" was trademarked as having been first used in commerce (meaning either when the name was first applied to a product, or when the so-named product was first shipped from the factory) December 27, 1962. The Clari-Tone name was first used July 21, 1964.

I can't find any evidence of the Clari-Tone in the 1974 price list, but the VSP is there. I've noted Clari-Tone serial numbers from 0968 through 8867, all with the oval stamping, and then one at 91358 which might have had a very faint lyre logo above the Claritone name, and the "swoopy" C trill key.

I've recorded examples of the original Reso-Tone from 3054E to 9745J, the Reso II from 1427 to 3069, the Reso-Tone 2 from 01443 to 15686, and the Reso-Tone 3 from 05727 up. The earliest Lyre logo I've seen is at A25474. The early ones had only the outline of the lyre engraved, as opposed to the thick stamping that most had.

Not to muddy the waters by getting the Normandy involved, but I'm 100% certain that there was a great deal of Normandy production before the Vito clarinets were introduced. The keywork differences and the clear difference in the type of plastic used in the first run of Normandy models confirm it in my mind, along with the fact that the first Vitos appear with serial numbers in the middle of the second Normandy series.

Sorry for the novel; hope this brings more clarity than confusion...

Thanks for all the information.
Does the  Reso-Tone 3  21550 (with original warranty card) come with a date?  It would make for a nice anchor point to work out a possible serial number list from.

You are almost certainly correct about the Normandy.  The Kenosha factory was built in 1951, expanded on in 1953, and Vito trademark registration came along in 1958 with a first use date of 7/23/1958. 
For Phil's  " The Clarinet Pages " forum. https://clarinetpages.info/

Offline 350 Rocket

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2017, 07:15:58 PM »
No, the card wasn't dated. It's one of the punch-style ones and has a ZIP code in the address, although post-1963 is pretty much a given for it anyway. I don't think I've ever seen a Leblanc warranty card with a date.
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Offline mechanic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2017, 09:12:47 PM »
Here's one I can't explain.  No model number was visible, serial number is 22546.  Check the heavy, faux wood grain, the center ring and the left hand pinky key touches.
For Phil's  " The Clarinet Pages " forum. https://clarinetpages.info/

Offline Airflyte

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • CONNoisseur of Vintage Ebonite
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2017, 09:50:42 AM »
mechanic, that looks like Lisa's '74 Vito  on page 1. Her copy seems to have the normal LH pinky keys. These Vito's are "all over the map" in terms of logos, models and some features.



I'll post about my Vito, serial number B22750, manufacture date of 1974.
 Its not specifically labeled as a resonite, but it's not wood.  It is marked only with "Vito" on the upper joint and bell, and matching serial numbers on both upper and lower joints. School inventory number WSD 74-132 is scratched into each piece, except the mouthpiece.  The Vito mouthpiece pictured is my own, not the Encore one it came with.  I can't find any info, other than the serial numbers put it at 1974.  I've not found one picture like it, none.  The knurled metal joint rings-bands make it distictive.  Other forum members were sure it was wood, based on pictures, but it isn't, so maybe a prototype?
I think it plays very nicely and easily, I really like it a lot, and am not bothered that it isn't wood.  I hope a lot of kids played it, and got a good start on clarinet.  For a school instrument, with 74 scratched into it, telling me it was added to the fleet in 1974, and in my mind, verifying 1974 as a manufacture date, it's in fantastic condition, so I think it was appreciated by its players.
Lisa
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 09:57:19 AM by Airflyte »
"The Clarinet - in a class of its own"

Visit Phil Pedler's Clarinet Pages NEW website!
https://sites.google.com/clarinetpages.net/clarinetpages

Offline mechanic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2017, 07:53:48 PM »
"All over the map" might be a gross understatement.  How about a Reso-Tone 2 with standard offset trill keys?
https://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=40142976
No serial number visible or in the listing.

If they only ran 1 serial number sequence at a time, the one I posted would have to be pre-1968.  Based on the production numbers of the official serial number list, I calculated it back to late 1967, if they started with A00001.

Numbers in red are based on them going to 99999 before changing prefix letter,  The Blue numbers I can't figure.  To run to 99999 before switching would have both those years over 80,000 units. D in 1983 probably went to somewhere in the 37,000 neighborhood before switching to E.  1984, E could have gone to around 30,000 before switching.  Hard to determine as the next 2 years '85 and '86 put up the lowest production numbers.  The last 4 years are an approximate based on them starting at A00001.  This 35 year sequence accounts for over 800,000 Vito clarinets.

YEAR   NUMBER      NUMBER        TOTAL       # / WEEK
2003   E   53901   E   74400   20499   394
2002   E   33520   E   53900   20380   392
2001   E   09560   E   33519   23959   461
2000   D   86151   E   09559   23407   450
1999   D   62071   D   86150   24079   463
1998   D   33264   D   62070   28806   554
1997   D   04017   D   33263   29246   562
1996   C   74051   D   04016   29964   576
1995   C   45958   C   74050   28092   540
1994   C   18261   C   45957   27696   533
1993   B   89437   C   18260   22882   440
1992   B   64824   B   89436   24612   473
1991   B   40077   B   64823   24746   476
1990   B   14493   B   40076   25583   492
1989   A   86497   B   14492   27994   538
1988   A   61457   A   86496   25039   482
1987   A   37939   A   61456   23517   452
1986   A   22038   A   37938   15900   306
1985   A   07633   A   22037   14404   277
1984   E   13605   A   07632   -5973   -115
1983   D   25636   E   13604   -12032   -231

1982   D   01579   D   25635   24056   463
1981   C   75804   D   01578   25782   496
1980   C   54834   C   75803   20969   403
1979   C   30366   C   54833   24467   471
1978   C   11804   C   30365   18561   357
1977   B   89671   C   11803   22131   426
1976   B   67360   B   89670   22310   429
1975   B   43178   B   67359   24181   465
1974   B   19756   B   43177   23421   450
1973   B   00236   B   19755   19519   375
1972   A   80000   B   00235   20234   389
1971   A   60479   A   79999   19520   375
1970   A   40958   A   60478   19520   375
1969   A   21437   A   40957   19520   375
1968   A   01916   A   21436   19520   375



mechanic, that looks like Lisa's '74 Vito  on page 1. Her copy seems to have the normal LH pinky keys. These Vito's are "all over the map" in terms of logos, models and some features.



I'll post about my Vito, serial number B22750, manufacture date of 1974.
 Its not specifically labeled as a resonite, but it's not wood.  It is marked only with "Vito" on the upper joint and bell, and matching serial numbers on both upper and lower joints. School inventory number WSD 74-132 is scratched into each piece, except the mouthpiece.  The Vito mouthpiece pictured is my own, not the Encore one it came with.  I can't find any info, other than the serial numbers put it at 1974.  I've not found one picture like it, none.  The knurled metal joint rings-bands make it distictive.  Other forum members were sure it was wood, based on pictures, but it isn't, so maybe a prototype?
I think it plays very nicely and easily, I really like it a lot, and am not bothered that it isn't wood.  I hope a lot of kids played it, and got a good start on clarinet.  For a school instrument, with 74 scratched into it, telling me it was added to the fleet in 1974, and in my mind, verifying 1974 as a manufacture date, it's in fantastic condition, so I think it was appreciated by its players.
Lisa
For Phil's  " The Clarinet Pages " forum. https://clarinetpages.info/

Offline 350 Rocket

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2017, 08:13:10 PM »
"All over the map" might be a gross understatement.  How about a Reso-Tone 2 with standard offset trill keys?
https://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=40142976
No serial number visible or in the listing.
That's normal. The Reso II and Reso-Tone 2 had offset trill keys to separate them as cheaper models. I'm sure Leblanc ultimately concluded that spending extra money to make a second type of keywork for a less-profitable instrument wasn't a worthwhile endeavor.
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Offline Paul

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2017, 04:10:01 PM »
I have an older 70's Vito with  out the In-line Jump Trill Keys. I have never seen another, but it plays great.

Offline shmuelyosef

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2017, 01:36:38 PM »
Has there been any attention in this discussion to the keywork origin. I'm looking to get a composite clarinet (a few, perhaps) for outdoor gigs and travel, hiking, etc...
I like the older french keywork (I play 50s vintage Selmers) like the Selmer and Leblanc where the RH pinky cluster is as close as possible to the RH ring keys; it is also angled 'upwards'. I see a lot of the earlier Resotones have keywork that looks just like this and assume that this keywork was manufactured in France and supplied to Wisconsin for assembly.

Around the Resotone 3 series I see a mix of Leblanc-like keywork and keywork that has RH pinky cluster that is closer to perpendicular to the body and farther (3-4mm...not insubstantial) from the RH ring keys. The difference is very similar to the change in keywork design that Selmer made between the Series 10S and the modern instruments (Odyssee, Arthea to the present).

A lot of the pictures on shopgoodwilll are not good enough to see this...any hints how to tease the difference out from other cues?

On a different note as well regarding all these clarinets. Are the bores and/or toneholes machined? or are they just shipped as they come out of the molds?
Clarinet: Selmer Centered Tone (1 ea 6-ring and 7-ring), Selmer Series 9, Yamaha Custom CS 853, Leblanc Vito V40, B&H 1-10, Leblanc VSP, plus the middle school for sale list (all fully overhauled)
BC: Yamaha 221mkii
Piano: Mason & Hamlin Model A, Fender Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I, Nord Electro
Many saxes

Offline Airflyte

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • CONNoisseur of Vintage Ebonite
    • View Profile
Re: The 'Official' ClarinetPages Vito Reso-Tone thread.
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2017, 01:05:47 PM »
Has there been any attention in this discussion to the keywork origin. I'm looking to get a composite clarinet (a few, perhaps) for outdoor gigs and travel, hiking, etc...

First post, third paragraph  :)   Jeff, If you can offer any insight and/or pictures of the French keywork and when it no longer was used on the Vitos, it would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the clarinet bodies go, I assume the they were molded as hollow blanks and then machined. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!
"The Clarinet - in a class of its own"

Visit Phil Pedler's Clarinet Pages NEW website!
https://sites.google.com/clarinetpages.net/clarinetpages