Author Topic: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread  (Read 27267 times)

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #105 on: February 19, 2018, 07:09:35 PM »
Excellent sleuthing, Sy.  Thanks for that.  Some very interesting information you bring to the table there.

I think we can easily dispel the notion of "our" Harry Pedler Sr. being the Private Harry Pedler listed as serving in France in 1915 in the Royal Army Service Corps, as he'd have been 43 years old by then, and few countries, so early into a war are desperate enough to enlist middle aged men.  Both first and surnames were (are?) Rather common in England, which adds to the ambiguity and misascription I'll wager.  Perhaps it was Harry Pedler Jr. who returned to the service of the King in late 1915, though he'd only have been 16 years old, and perhaps no longer bound to service as an expat.  Curious. 

The travel data you provide seems legitimate, (though I know of no ships capable of crossing the Atlantic twice in 9 days at that time, and it certainly would have made for an abbreviated visit, in any event, but these events often get mis-recorded) and shows he DID return to England--further subtantiated by the correct mention of his wife Louisa and youngest son, Donald.

Margaret Annie and John Edward Pedler are mis-recorded as being his children.  The Elkhart Truth (26 September 1950:  Harry Walter Pedler Sr. obituary) mentions Harry Junior as his eldest child, and a suspect a marriage in 1896 between HWP Sr. and Louisa Hughes would not have yielded 2 children born 8 and 9 years prior, out of wedlock, to 14 and 15 year old parents, respectively.  So...who were they?  Younger siblings of HWP Sr., perhaps?  Cousins?  The other children listed match what I have, though, and Katie M. Pedler would later become known as Mrs. Hubbard Nelson.

I find it interesting that HWP Jr. would have gone to Glendale, CA in 1933.  He certainly could not have been there long, as he was his father's right-hand man, and they both were reportedly in parnership with Gus Buescher at the time.  Fascinating.

Thanks again for your contributions, Sy.

NOW...please tell us more about this Wonder Tone clarinet you've acquired.  I believe I saw this one come through, or one so labelled, recently.

EDIT:  I found the photos I saved of the Wonder Tone, S/N 3384, which is now yours.  What an exceptional find.  I can only suppose I did not record it as I saw no evidence of the S/N, but as you own it and have verified it, that is more than sufficient.  Where is the S/N located on metal Harry clarinets this early? 
It appears to have been played a lot, and is a valuable piece in the early Pedler puzzle.  Notice the hybrid Gronert AMC/very early Harry Pedler crow's foot.  Pressed to do so, I'd date this to 1920.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 08:43:35 PM by Windsong »
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Offline windydankoff

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #106 on: February 19, 2018, 09:43:51 PM »
Pedler HR SN E20716 sounds AMAZING!

I mentioned to a local workman that I repair clarinets, and a few days later he brought this one by, and I handed him a few 10s. I recognized the 40s style case (with bell bulge), and inside was this horn that looks like army surplus. But it has new pads, and plays WONDERFULLY. I mean this thing sounds dark and sweet, and just right, all up and down. It came with the original MP, which is in good shape, but not sounding good. But once I paired it up with one of my favorite FRANCE 2V (Riffault) pieces, my hair stood up! Nice key feel too. I like the old German-style keys, if thats how to describe them.

The UJ bore is BIG, 15.0mm near top and bottom (but flares out additional .1mm at each end). The UJ is shorter than modern standard by about 5mm, and the barrel is 62mm.

So whats up with these things? Are all this kind of Pedler this good, or did I get lucky? I had slightly newer Pedler HR with modern style keys, and it didnt sound special (I donated it to the schools).

Regarding the color, it has a certain punk appeal in green, but the barrel is worse, and uneven, so Im going to try some restoration on it. Some of you have said the best bet is to polish off the old surface, which (for a barrel) I can easily do on the lathe. How it got such a gradient from black at bottom to green on top, I cant imagine (I can, but Im waiting for others to chime in).

Can someone estimate the year?

Who's the Imperial Wizard of the Pedler Cult, and where to I apply?
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2018, 05:15:06 AM »
E20716 can be dated to late 1947, per the warranty card 350 Rocket shared, provided the hand written date was accurately recorded.  Further photos will will enable better analysis of hardware.
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Offline Windsong

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A Diamond In The Rough...
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2018, 10:24:21 AM »
Here is a current example of another, early "diamond-logo" Harry Pedler & Co. Model 1544 Albert.  It seems complete and original, and hosts the correct logo in all pertinant areas, including the original mouthpiece--a very uncommon ensemble.  Note the wrap-around register key; a feature seemingly abandoned prior to the 1924 model year:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Harry-Pedler-Co-Bb-Clarinet-early-1900s-no-serial-Elkhart-Indiana/292459773951?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

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Offline windydankoff

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2018, 12:59:54 PM »
Back up a couple messages, returning to my HR horn turned green, I got an almost-fine result polishing a bit of the barrel, doing it on the lathe. I restored the color to be a bit blacker than the UJ -- much nicer than it was. I took off just enough so the logo impression is reduced maybe 40% and still complete.

I started with 600 then 1200 grit paper but little grooves formed in the surface. I think the dust melted together with the (very low) heat, caused little "snowballs" that wore the grooves. Next time I will WET sand it at very low speed, and that won't happen. By the time I finished with steel wool, it was a bit darker -- I had taken more off than I had intended. Such is life when tempted by power tools! But the lathe, with restraint, is a great way to surface barrels and bells, at least.

It would be very tedious to polish the keyed joints to restore the black! Any ideas, let me know. Same for MPs.
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Offline AJW

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #110 on: February 26, 2018, 01:14:25 PM »
I have a Pedler Clarinet, serial # E 25919.  It was given to me by my father and has not been played for roughly 60 yrs.  My son is interested in learning to play the Clarinet. I am assuming it will be more financially prudent for me and more convenient for my son to just purchase a new clarinet. Can anyone confirm my suspicions?  I intend to keep my fathers clarinet in our family's possession but I would be interested in having it refurbished in hopes of my son playing it someday.  Can anyone lead me in the right direction?  Curious about what it will likely cost to refurbish and what the value of this clarinet might be?

Thanks in advance for any input you may be willing to share,

AJW

Offline windydankoff

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #111 on: February 26, 2018, 02:36:49 PM »
Dear AJW,

Old Pedlers of that era have a following to this day. E of the serial number indicates "ebonite" which is hard rubber. It's quite desirable, for durability and tone quality. If you can get it overhauled, it would probably be better cost/benefit vs. buying a mediocre plastic instrument for about the same cost. Overhaul can cost in range of $150 to maybe $300 for a fully aesthetic restoration. Others may have more advice on this.

I have a Pedler SN E20716, close to yours. Date is 1947. With a recent overhaul, it plays wonderfully with good tone and intonation (tuning accuracy). Mine however looks like dark olive drab. Hard rubber sometimes discolors over the decades. A school kid may be a bit embarrassed. If yours looks black, like normal, and if the keys are not much corroded or dark gray, it has great potential besides the sentimental value. Why not have both? The keys can be polished (with some labor). Green body is more troublesome, but there are solutions for that too. And, for $20-25 you can get a decent fabric & foam zipper case from eBay, so you can keep the original case as a momento.
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #112 on: March 10, 2018, 09:32:02 AM »
I offer the following to those who may have wondered about GEIB cases.  Typically, these were branded on the inside with a medallion affixed to the velour (see photo).  More often than not, these medallions became detached, and you will simply find the circular impression where it once resided, but occasionally, you get lucky.  On "Pedler" branded cases, often, the medallions were not present.  I have some of each.

These cases have the bell flare, and while one can only suppose they were deemed "fashionable" during the 1930s and early 1940s (when they were most prominently used) they are awkward and unstackable (perhaps the objective?) and rock when opened.  These cases are not sturdily wrapped--typically, and the thin cloth is easily worn on high spots.  They are rigid cases, with quality catches and hinges, and do a mediocre job of retaining the clarinet, and keeping components safe, but as they wear, the barrel and mouthpiece cavities seem somewhat insufficient in preventing shift.  Like all cases, opening it upside-down can lead to unfortunate consequences, but moreso as these are concerned, due to the aforementioned rocking once unloaded. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 06:11:44 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Airflyte

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #113 on: March 14, 2018, 08:12:34 PM »
Cool logo! Nothing like an impressive coat of arms for some clarinet case bling  ;D
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Offline zigzigy7

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #114 on: March 30, 2018, 08:09:04 PM »
whether or not stencils are to be counted is up to you but I have a metal carl fischer stencil clarinet that is undoubtedly made by peddler based on the ligature and thumb saddle and is a premiere model as it's C#/G# trill is identical to other's ive seen in that the post runs from the Eb sliver key to the B/F# tone hole and the crow's foot is the same as described earlier in the thread, a long bar instead of the traditional design. sn#8568

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #115 on: April 02, 2018, 06:49:42 PM »
Thank you for your insights and pictorial contributions, Zigzigy.

There were a small number of brands that Harry Pedler (and William Gronert) made clarinets for, or made with alternate stampings, especially during the early years.  Some were stencils and some, simply side projects.  The line between the two is fine, but nonetheless distinct.

Thus far, I have personally documented:
Frank Holton (19-teens and 1920s--especially the Albert system clarinets)
Manhattan (19-teens and 1920s)
La Premiere Francaise (believed all)

I would love to see smaller photos (once clicked upon, and side by side, if possible) of a Carl Fischer and a similarly-keyed Harry Pedler/Pedler Co.

I tend to think Fischer had their own serial number system, but perhaps Harry Pedler made the clarinets in his own sequence, and left some unbranded so they could be embellished with the seller's insignia.  I have chosen not to include stencil serials at this time due to much uncertainty surrounding serialization, but should we determine at a later date that the serial numbers were awarded by the manufacturer in sequence to normal production, I see no reason why it would not be prudent to include them with notes to distinguish them.

Again, thank you for your contribution.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 05:50:43 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #116 on: April 08, 2018, 04:35:33 PM »
This past week, a warranty card showed up in the most unusual of places;  a case with a Normany "Redotone" clarinet.
It is not dated, unfortunately, but is an interesting piece of Pedler history, nonetheless:
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #117 on: April 08, 2018, 04:39:32 PM »
I also purchased this bore oil, and while I suspect it is worthless for it's intended purposes 80 years on, it's a valuable piece of Pedler history:

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Offline red0v

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #118 on: June 14, 2018, 09:21:02 PM »
I was given an American Silver Clarinet after it was found in the attic of a business with a variety of other instruments from the '30s-'40s.  I actually got online to find out how to clean it up if anybody has any advice on that I will take it.  It's got no pads left and is in really rough shape overall, I've just had it "displayed" as is.  It is serial numbered 11116 but if you look at the back of the C key, it is stamped with an 'S'.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x7jsht5cguyos1g/20180614_234402.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qujtv7w7jgm4gan/20180614_234416.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nbuspjfyrgyspa/20180614_234435.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qr81e58q0jt89kj/20180614_234444.jpg?dl=0

Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #119 on: June 14, 2018, 11:08:48 PM »
The majority of metal clarinets are really only good for display these days. Occassionally a jazz artist will need one for a gig or for a recording session, but common use is pretty low.

I kind of like the patina it has. You could silver polish it to a mirror shine, but that takes forever, and kills the antique character of it.
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