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Author Topic: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread  (Read 68302 times)

Offline Alfearless

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #195 on: March 06, 2024, 10:40:36 AM »
Balance

Offline ghoulcaster

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The Fate of Pedler
« Reply #196 on: March 07, 2024, 07:15:06 AM »
oof, stumbled upon this picture. Based on the keywork, looks to be a Pedler.




Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #197 on: March 08, 2024, 05:38:46 PM »
What are we looking at there, Al?
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #198 on: March 08, 2024, 05:40:41 PM »
Ghoul,
Yes--that is a pre-1924 Harry Pedler.  While not assembled correctly, it appears to have 3 rings on the lower joint, making that the highly regarded and often coveted 1554 model Albert.  In fact, that is the only one of his I do not own, and this lamp is in part, the reason.
 The missing barrel is not an issue, and as long as the rest of that..ahem..."lamp" is in good order, it would be a fine resto. 😒
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 01:59:13 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #199 on: March 08, 2024, 05:48:13 PM »
Here are three clarinets--all from the mid 1920s.  Two are Harry Pedler and Co. Clarinets, and one is not.  Can you tell which one is not?
 
(This is NOT a rhetorical question!  I wanna know what you think...)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 06:14:07 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #200 on: March 08, 2024, 06:05:14 PM »
I will be focusing on the keywork details that differed from one year to the next, in future installments. Most are very subtle.  By the end of this "course", you should be able to identify a Harry Pedler from 1000 yards, and with gear oil smeared on your glasses. 😁

Stay tuned, Pedler lovers!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 06:08:54 PM by Windsong »
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Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #201 on: March 09, 2024, 02:00:49 AM »
What are we looking at there, Al?

We are looking at Balance, Windsong, Balance. In life we all must learn the balance between light and dark, between metal and wood, and between sense and nonsense.

Ha, i was wondering that too. A metal clarinet, but we need more, Al!
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Virginia Beach, Virginia

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #202 on: March 09, 2024, 08:02:21 AM »
Brilliant, Dave!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 09:32:13 PM by Windsong »
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #203 on: March 09, 2024, 02:50:29 PM »
Here are three clarinets--all from the mid 1920s.  Two are Harry Pedler and Co. Clarinets, and one is not.  Can you tell which one is not?
 
(This is NOT a rhetorical question!  I wanna know what you think...)


I'm going with the one on the right.
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #204 on: March 09, 2024, 06:27:27 PM »
Admittedly, while the question was not rhetorical, the question was a bit of a trick one.  Believe it or not, it is the center one that is not the Harry Pedler clarinet.  It was made by Harry Pedler, but branded La Premiere Francaise.  Silversorcerer mentioned years ago the notion that La Premiere Francaise clarinets were stencils, but only just yesterday was I able to hold one for the first time, and irrefutably confirm this.

The truth is that I cannot tell the difference between them either.  The keywork is nigh identical, and fully interchangeable.  I have taken measurements between posts which remain identical, and since Harry Pedler seldom stamped his top or bottom joint (exceptions exist, yet I have only one), it would be very easy to switch joints up between the two.

So, why a different name?  Why the effort to create an identical product with a French sounding name?  Market Dominance, and trompe l'oeil, of sorts.  For those who insisted on a French horn, this was an opportunity in the early days when French horns were not inherently superior to those being made in the U.S. by first generation German and English immigrants (Mueller, Penzel, Pruefer, Pedler, etc.), but more prized in the minds of many, to at least catch part of a market
he would have otherwise missed.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 06:31:05 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #205 on: March 21, 2024, 05:49:36 PM »
Here is a Harry Pedler advert from 1927.
The 40-year bit is no doubt based upon Harry Pedler's experience with woodwinds since 1885 with Rudall, Carte and Co.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 05:55:30 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Windsong

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Date Stake?
« Reply #206 on: March 21, 2024, 06:18:21 PM »
Here is another, with weak pedigree.
According to the seller, the other documents in the case put the date of manufacture at 1944. 

Yeah..OK.

So, it is only a warranty card.  It *may* be from 1944.  An odd date for manufacture of non war related, non-essentials, but feasible. 

The P21XXX serial is set in late 1953.  If we assume the claim is legitimate (a leap of faith at this point, and not one I am willing to make yet), it would likely denote the E-line was an earlier line or a more prolific one than the P-line.
The E-line (E for Ebonite) was indeed a very prolific line, as evidenced by available stock on-line.
However...it's all poppycock, because we have no date verifier.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 10:52:05 PM by Windsong »
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Offline 350 Rocket

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #207 on: March 22, 2024, 02:04:11 PM »
I have (somewhere) an image of the guarantee card for E20675 which has "8/21/47" written at the top.

While that isn't a strong indicator (no telling who wrote that or when) it isn't terribly far off.

What the "other documents" are is key - if there's an actual invoice or bill of sale or something linked to the original purchase, then that would all but confirm it was pre-war production that a music store happened to still have in stock when the original owner came looking for a clarinet in 1944.
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #208 on: March 22, 2024, 04:47:22 PM »
He claimed a bill of sale. 
I never saw it, and my kin harken from Missourah, if you know what I mean.

I remain skeptical, but I think yours, combined with mine at least place it in the late-mid 40s.  That jibes. 
I suspect yours is more accurate. This guy likely never had a bill of sale, and is instead basing age upon some tale the estate sale rep. shared, and a war photo jammed in the case with a ballpoint reference and an arrow.

It's a fair guess.  I believe it to be close.  I believe at around E18XXX, the thumbrest changed and A key changed, purportedly just after post war manufacture resumed.  1947 sounds spot on.  If we assume that new serials were initiated by Martin upon take-over in 1930-1931, 1175 clarinets per year, per product-line (average, assumed) times about 6 lines, keeps an offshoot subsidiary rather busy.  No doubt they made more of the metal variety for at least the first decade.

I am pleased that we are still pushing the ball down the field.  We've been a long time in on this one.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 04:56:18 PM by Windsong »
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread
« Reply #209 on: April 07, 2024, 10:09:44 PM »
A currently listed Harry Pedler has one very unusual key.  It is the first I have seen (or at least paid attention to, and I have a lot of Harry Pedler clarinets, none so equipped).

Photo #1: Traditional Harry Pedler with canary perch crow's foot.
Photo #2: seller's Harry Pedler.  It's a genuine Harry, and has a low serial #.  The grand departure from his utilitarian convention is frankly baffling.  (Historically, Harry utilized two separate pieces for the key touch actuator and the pad cup arm, and this protocol remained dominant until Martin cleaned up his keywork designs). 

This G#/A RH pinky design is much cleaner.  The key arm is tacked underneath, providing continuity.  I don't prefer it, but only because it looks completely out of place amid all other keys that do not deviate.   

I estimate this odd one to have a manufacture date of c. 1931, and I would place it earlier (1928-1929, since metal and Hard Rubber serialization began before Harry left) if it weren't for this key.  It may have been Martin's first design deviation, making it historically important.  Recall that Martin continued use of Harry's name for several years. 

Are there others of these? 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 10:39:01 PM by Windsong »
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