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Author Topic: Harry Pedler & Co./The Pedler Co. Thread  (Read 29879 times)

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2017, 08:20:19 PM »
That's a nice looking alto, Sorcerer.  Glad you got one, and a Harry, at that.  That's an early one. (1923-1925?)
What can you tell us about that bell "stitching"? 
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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2017, 08:18:06 AM »
That's the bell brazing seam. Interesting detail, but I decided I liked the bell better without that. Polishing with abrasives, I will only do with very fine abrasives so that wouldn't have worked. The line runs through the engraving and I don't want to soften the engraving. There are two approaches to oxidation or corrosion. The first is to simply remove it with an abrasive of some type. The second is to reverse it chemically. Reversing oxidation chemically conserves and in some cases restores the metal that is oxidized without removing it. In this case I just rubbed the areas that had the corrosion with a cotton swab soaked in vinegar. Looks like that worked well enough. There's still a bit of a shadow of the brazing line, but not so noticeable. I only used the vinegar, Wright's silver polish (which works slower on nickel-silver) and very fine jeweler's hard rouge on a cloth.

Too bad about the flattened area on the bow, but it's not that noticeable and it can be fixed professionally by any one that has the dent ball sets. I don't have any dent balls.

Unlike the Custom-built model that followed it, the 175A has a nickel-silver bell apparently or nickel plated brass. The Custom-built model gets some mad silver tarnish but this one just gets that dull patina of nickel. The style of the engraving is also quite different. The Custom-built is overall a redesign of the instrument and very different in mechanics and appearance.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2017, 09:01:59 AM »
This explanation of the method of joining the metal that leaves the stitch pattern is covered very well here by Getzen:

http://www.getzen.com/gazette/2009/03/10/what-is-a-hand-hammered-bell/

Skip down to "How is the seam formed/brazed?"

This is the before photo of the bell that I posted earlier (if this works) and it shows the result of joining the metal. It was not intended to show on the original instrument. It shows up because of oxidation in the metal

http://clarinetpages.info/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1265.0;attach=4027;image



I think reducing that line using vinegar chemistry helped it out immensely. The vinegar also helped reduce the small areas where something corrosive had spattered on the bell at one time. It looked like little droplets of corrosion and these are mostly gone, not quite invisible. Vinegar and a cotton Q-tip type swab, not steel wool, or any kind of mechanical abrasive. And this is the result

Upper and lower joints are currently being refitted but conserving the old pads which have had some good quality replacements already. There are probably a few that will need replacing but I can't test it until I get a mouthpiece. I can go ahead and get it all synched and quiet where I know the pads are good. Some of them are just dried out and have no flexibility. It's only a few, but on the upper joint shorter trill, it seats at such an angle that the pad really needs a soft surface. It might hold up for play testing if I am careful with that key.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 09:03:45 AM by Silversorcerer »
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #63 on: August 22, 2017, 10:37:49 AM »
This is one of the 201A bass model bell's I posted the photo of earlier. This one is still available at the woodwind store. When I recently looked at the webpage there was no serial listed. This one has the single ring upper joint, where as the later 201A models are all plateau. The serialization starts on these sometime before the full plateau bass appears.

The style of the 175A bell engraving next to this 201A shows that these are from the same few years of production. The 175A looks identical to the one in the brochure from the mid 1920s.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #64 on: August 22, 2017, 02:25:10 PM »
Great article, and nice polishing.
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2017, 07:56:40 PM »
This is a picture of the two Pedler clarinets I have so far, both are Bb.
The wooden one is already listed, The Pedler Co, in oval with lyre crown, 19 key 7 ring, articulated C#/G#, Pedler appliance (no crow's foot).  In great shape and plays well.  Serial number W8862
The metal one is considered a student model, but it's also in great shape and plays, though could use a couple pads.  This a Harry Pedler & Co "American". Serial number 11141.
On the metal one is a clear plastic, lucite(?) mouthpiece, The Pedler Co, purchased seperately, but it does fit in the barrel nicely.  I think it looks good too, with the metal body.
I think I'm kind of turning into a Pedler collector.  All I need as an Albert in Bb and another in C, though I think I'd have to arm wrestle Windsong for a Pedler in the key of C if one ever comes for sale.
Lisa
Lisa  Upper Michigan

Everything will B(b)-Fine, at The Clarinet Pages

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Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2017, 09:33:13 PM »
Pedler did an insane multicolored lucite-bodied clarinet at one point. I've only ever seen a couple.
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2017, 12:43:37 PM »
I readily admit to collecting Pedler Woodwinds as well as Harry Pedler. Incidentally, there are a few great candidates on the auctions now, including another Premiere Francais stencil by Harry.

WIth the bass and the alto, which might be the rarest, and I really just stumbled onto those, I've got a pretty good Pedler family in the making. Still, it seems there's always a model I haven't seen before.

I don't have any metal ones yet.

All the wood ones I've played are excellent so far. I still have a good number to get into playing shape of course, but I'm getting more focused on restoration work lately.

I have this theory that the Gren-O-lite might be a Bakelite mixture. I want to see one of those up close.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2017, 06:36:31 PM »
This past week, a metal Harry Pedler "American, Harry Pedler & Co.", S/N:11754, sold on-line for its BIN price of $99.00.
While these clarinets are not especially uncommon, what IS uncommon is what was contained within the case, itself:  The original spring replacement card.  Perhaps a few of you noticed this one come through:
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2017, 07:26:28 PM »
I already downloaded the picture for posterity, as it's exactly like mine, though I think my case is not original, it's tan.  Thank you for sharing.
  ;D
Lisa  Upper Michigan

Everything will B(b)-Fine, at The Clarinet Pages

https://www.flickr.com/photos/148152785@N03/albums  My musical instrument pics, and others!

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2017, 05:53:40 AM »
Today, Lisa brought to my attention (thank you, Lisa!) something I should have caught a long time ago; the fact that a good majority of H.N. White metal clarinets possess the Harry Pedler appliance.  The keywork is not precisely like Harry's original keywork, nor is it identical to MBIC's, though the 'knife blade' key arms share a strong similarity with the later MBIC Keywork.  For all you "Missourians" out there, I'll post up photos for comparison shortly.  Presently, have a look at a finely restored H. N. White with great detail:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPLENDIDE-Clarinette-m%C3%A9tal-argent%C3%A9-CLEVELAND-HN-WHITE-U-S-A-Sib-Pr%C3%AAte-%C3%A0-jouer/222663310393?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Thanks to Modernicus' sleuthing back in April of this year, a patent for possibly the first alternative to the crow's foot was uncovered, having been awarded to E. Bercioux:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US750935-0.png

The above H. N. White clarinet is a source of intrigue.  Was this an MBIC-era patent right sell-off?  Did Harry Pedler, himself, lease the patent rights to White?  Why were no Harry Pedler or MBIC "The Pedler" metal clarinets ever so equipped?  While the keywork differences are just different enough to keep from thinking this was a Pedler stencil, the similarities are worthy of note, and cause for further research.

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Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2017, 06:53:41 AM »
A few snaps of the "Pedler Appliance" on an original Harry Pedler 7-Ring, and a MBIC "The Pedler" 7-ring:
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Offline Dibbs

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2017, 07:00:00 AM »
...a good majority of H.N. White metal clarinets possess the Harry Pedler appliance...

And B&H 1010s (but not early ones) and of course Peter Eatons.

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2017, 07:12:37 AM »
Thanks for that, Dibbs.
Curiously, both companies have their roots in England, and of course Harry Pedler was an Englishman.  There may be no correlation, but it is interesting to note.
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline Windsong

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Re: Harry Pedler and Co./The Pedler Co. Serial Number List
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2017, 07:48:12 AM »
As you can see, the actuator arm on the Pedler clarinets is closer to the pad cup arm than it is on the H. N. White apparatus--the primary difference, and seemingly not enough of a "change" to enable it to be considered a separate invention.

From info contained in the link below, it is gleaned that H. N. White did not stencil clarinets for other manufacturers.  This does not inherently imply that other companies did not make stencils for them.

http://www.hnwhite.com/Clarinets.htm

Additionally, the above link states that, "Some time between 1924 and 1931 the H. N. White Company started to manufacture brass Clarinets."
That's a pretty wide window, but nevertheless, it begins after Harry Pedler had successfully implemented his "Appliance", so it is plausible the design was "borrowed" or purchased from, or even made by Pedler. 

From a pure mechanical perspective, I believe the Pedler design to be superior, as the actuator arm is more centered, and should provide more even distribution of force on the pad, itself.


Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.