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Author Topic: Amati Kraslice and stencils  (Read 9751 times)

Offline Airflyte

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2017, 06:26:33 PM »
After seeing noneyets  Meyer in post number 3, I could not figure out were I have seen that bell logo design before.

After much digging through the clarinet closet, an "Artist" was found. I forgot how nice the wood and overall build quality was on this one.
Upper joint marked
       
           2
     
       3499

Lower joint marked

       3499

       9212

      Made
        In
 Czechoslovakia


I also found my Minolta Instant Pro in the digging process so that was worth the effort to find the clarinet!



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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2017, 08:37:09 PM »
Those photos show it off very well. What I see when I've followed the auctions on these is that the Meyers, Artists, and other stencil names generally finish at 1/3 less to 1/2 less than one marked Amati;- and it is often the same clarinet and in this case, this Artist looks like it has the solid nickel silver keys.

I think the stencils of this classic are good opportunities.

Some are plated and the plating is generally also very good with nickel silver under it. I don't know which is earlier but I am guessing that the plating could be later? The way they have designed the keys is both elegant, modern, and distinctive. Once you see one of these and study it closely, it's impossible to miss. It's as recognizable as the Kohlert Boehm clarinets that pre-dated it.

So you could get this one new: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/woodwinds/amati-acl-201-bb-student-clarinet

or check that place where the vintage or antiques are and you will find two available now, well under $100, both with vintage hard rubber mouthpieces. I'm the cheapskate so I might check out a vintage one soon.

Nice camera too. Is that an SX-70 type?
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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2017, 09:39:29 PM »
See this thread for photos of two other Amati stencils, a La Couture marked one and a Corton marked one. There are others as well, all the same Amati design, some variations in materials.

http://clarinetpages.info/smf/index.php?topic=297.0
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Airflyte

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 08:05:19 AM »
I will have to verify the finish of the keys.



I think the stencils of this classic are good opportunities.
Nice camera too. Is that an SX-70 type?
It's an instant camera much like the SX-70 but uses "Spectra" film that I believe is available from The Impossible Project - I may have to give it a test drive!

So, back to the Amati stencils, we have the following names;
  • Corton
  • La-Couture
  • Meyer
  • Artist

Are there any more that we can add?
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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 10:39:31 AM »
If I remember correctly there might have been one named "Champion" that came up a long time ago, but I didn't find a photo of it on my hard drive;- probably didn't same that one, so we need to wait until we see another one to check my sometimes faulty memory. I rarely trust even my own memory because it makes mistakes.
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Offline Airflyte

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2017, 10:57:14 AM »
I own a HR Champion but it has no Amati characteristics.

Do you think Amati Kraslice ever produced a clarinet of hard rubber?
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Offline noneyet

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2017, 11:23:17 AM »
Why yes, Silver, I have a Champion!  ::)

Serial # A 12193, stamped 'MADE IN FRANCE' in tiny letters on UJ and LJ, identical logo with stylized eagle and 3 stars beneath name on UJ and bell, no markings on barrel.  Doesn't being made in France preclude it from being an Amati stencil, though?
Hoarding clarinets since 2016 it's Stu Weaver only on The Clarinet Pages. :)

Offline noneyet

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2017, 12:04:06 PM »
So, back to the Amati stencils, we have the following names;
  • Corton
  • La-Couture
  • Meyer
  • Artist

Are there any more that we can add?


It looks like Carl Fischer imported some 'Artist' models as well, judging by this one :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Clarinet-Made-In-Czechoslovakia-Carl-Fischer-with-Hard-Case/112524183106
Hoarding clarinets since 2016 it's Stu Weaver only on The Clarinet Pages. :)

Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2017, 01:46:44 PM »
Why yes, Silver, I have a Champion!  ::)

Serial # A 12193, stamped 'MADE IN FRANCE' in tiny letters on UJ and LJ, identical logo with stylized eagle and 3 stars beneath name on UJ and bell, no markings on barrel.  Doesn't being made in France preclude it from being an Amati stencil, though?

The French may have their own "Champions", I think. You see, these are not protected trademark names. Any maker can use the names "Artist", "Prestige", "Champion", "La Couture (which is in France, not Bohemia)", or even "Amati", which was a the master violin maker that apprenticed Stradivari in Italy.

When it comes to identifying clarinets with names other than the makers' names (stencils), the only things we can depend on are direct comparisons of the physical artifacts and the country of origin export marks, and other small details like the locations and fonts used in the serial numbers.

A critical part of the exercise is finding a Champion (well known that there are many other artists or Artistes, like the PM Artist that we'd never confuse with an Amati) that is not an Amati while looking for the one that is an Amati.
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Offline Airflyte

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2017, 01:10:02 PM »
I will have to verify the finish of the keys.


So, back to the Amati stencils, we have the following names;
  • Corton
  • La-Couture
  • Meyer
  • Artist

Are there any more that we can add?
[/quote]

Here's another one ( La Paree ) it's on Phil's website! https://sites.google.com/a/clarinetpages.net/www/vintage-odd-brands/czeckoslovakian-stencil-clarinets
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Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2017, 01:38:56 PM »
Makes me wonder why more clarinets aren't made in one part (well 3 parts, body + bell, barrel and mouthpiece). Kinda like saxophones.

Very good question I've often asked, myself, L. And the related question is why don't the one piece metal clarinets have the C# on front of the tube?

I understand the desire for a smaller case, but long and narrow was fine for metal clarinets, so what's the reasoning?  ???
This has been bugging me for many days now. Why, indeed?
It's very rare to find a metal unibody with the C# on the front, except for the very high class 3-piece metal with articulated mechanism.

So I did a very unscientific test by visually comparing a Normandy 4 with a Boston Wonder Principia.
After lining up the tone holes relatively evenly between the two, I found that the metal clarinet had the C# significantly lower on the body than the Normandy 4.
Although I don't have a Bb with the articulation (I only have FB A clarinets...) I am certain that one would find the C# in the metal clarinet to be in line with the articulated ones.

I believe the C# was left on the side of the instrument because the front was reserved for a lyre attachment.
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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2017, 02:24:28 PM »
Well that's way cool to know. So these one piece metal clarinets might have an edge at least concerning the C# key design.
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Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2017, 04:15:55 PM »
I redid my test with a more scientific method, a caliper.
The Normandy has the middle of the C# hole 13mm away from the middle of the C hole. The Boston had the two 19mm apart.
If anybody has a metal clarinet on hand, please see if you can reproduce the results!

So if the C# was more in tune in single piece metal clarinets, why are they considered inferior to multiple piece metal?
My multi piece Laube has the two tone holes even closer than the Normandy at just 11mm apart.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2017, 09:17:27 PM »
I redid my test with a more scientific method, a caliper.
The Normandy has the middle of the C# hole 13mm away from the middle of the C hole. The Boston had the two 19mm apart.
If anybody has a metal clarinet on hand, please see if you can reproduce the results!

So if the C# was more in tune in single piece metal clarinets, why are they considered inferior to multiple piece metal?
My multi piece Laube has the two tone holes even closer than the Normandy at just 11mm apart.

I have a Victory metal and they are right in that 19mm range.
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Offline noneyet

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Re: Amati Kraslice and stencils
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2017, 10:18:14 PM »
I have a P. X. Laube metal and the distance is also 19mm
Hoarding clarinets since 2016 it's Stu Weaver only on The Clarinet Pages. :)