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Author Topic: An interesting banding method.  (Read 1901 times)

Offline Windsong

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An interesting banding method.
« on: August 26, 2017, 10:40:51 PM »
Overly complex, but perhaps an excellent repair.  It may be over-the-top, and unwarranted in this instance, however.  I never saw the crack, to be honest.

https://youtu.be/cnVXT2ZmPBU
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: An interesting banding method.
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 12:51:59 PM »
Pretty complex, but a $25,000 Selmer contra alto deserves only the best...
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Windsong

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Re: An interesting banding method.
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2017, 05:01:05 PM »
Crikey...can you imagine having the cash for one of those?
Expert bubblegum welder, and Pedler Pedler.

Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: An interesting banding method.
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2017, 05:07:01 PM »
Crikey...can you imagine having the cash for one of those?
New car or new clarinet... New car or new clarinet...

But then again, these are "only" $3500-$4000 used!
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: An interesting banding method.
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 04:07:55 PM »
Tedious. I'm sure it did no harm. What really impressed me is how sloppy the process was while in progress, particularly the CA dust mix and removal. "Yep, you guessed it;- more cleaning...."

One would think there might be a more elegant way. It's like most building construction;- can't be done without ruining the existing landscape. How do you get a lathe to turn with the vertical grain? Nice even dark line around the clarinet, but the finishing looked a bit unfinished.

It started with a grain crack that looked exterior. Soak a little glue of your choice (collagen) into the crack, it's closed. I thought sure he was on the right track with the bore oil, then instead of using it to oil the bore (duh!) he substitutes it for a "finish" to darken the area he sanded across the grain.

Lathe work is so impressive. "What is that line around your joint there?"
"It's where an invisible crack was repaired by major surgery with dust and superglue." ::)

- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Tinker73

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Re: An interesting banding method.
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2017, 09:24:18 AM »
Maybe a Selmer Contra Alto deserves only the best, and that requires a banding method that when it fails, not if it fails, will leave you totally screwed.  You still have to assume that the owner is going to keep this instrument well oiled so it doesn't do the exact same thing all over again in the future, and maybe it will spend the remainder of it's life in a totally climate controlled environment so the wood will never shrink or swell again.  My question with fixes like this are how will the repair shop fix it next time, maybe they can cut a little deeper and a little wider until they find wood that will accept CA glue next time?

Silversourcerer I think is correct, the owner had a very inconsequential surface crack, that with a little collagen glue could have been stabilized, and a lot less noticeable than a black ring on a beautiful instrument.  Sorry, it kind of sticks out like a sore thumb, kind of like adding a ring at the top of the upper joint, not that I'm saying cracks should be hidden or undisclosed, but you should not be able to spot them from across the room. 

I attached a couple pictures of a pair of cracks that were repaired with collagen glue by me recently.  The cracks are still noticeable as white/grey lines in the wood.  You still have to turn them in the light just right to pick them out, but they are there, I'm not trying to hide them in any way.  Here's the kicker, I did not use sand paper on the wood, nor did I use irreversible adhesive, if they ever start to fail, with a little warm water the collagen glue can be removed and the crack fixed again.  If I were to sell this clarinet someday, the new owner can fix it however they like, I have done absolutely no damage to the wood, and more importantly I did not half sand off the Martel Freres logo that adorns it.  You should know I am very inexperienced in using collagen glue, I have done less than 10 total fixes so far, but the nice thing is if I goof one up, I can go back and fix it over again and again and again and again.  The most important thing with this fix is that the underlying cause of the problem (dry wood) has been dealt with through frequent oiling over the last three weeks.  Now hopefully it's ready to finally get some keys on and play.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 09:27:31 AM by Tinker73 »
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Offline Silversorcerer

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Re: An interesting banding method.
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2017, 01:45:10 PM »
I certainly prefer wood repairs that remove the least amount of original material and are completely reversible. The video demonstrates a type of repair procedure that might have been over kill and the use of an adhesive that would be difficult to remove if it was necessary to renew the repair at a later date.

What is not considered in this specific repair is that the wood is substantially thinned at the area of repair. The amount of longitudinal grain that gives the instrument structural strength has been greatly reduced when the repair is "finished". If some  stress happens at this point again, the brittle cyanoacrylate has no longitudinal strength equal to the wood grain that was removed. The repair that is supposed to cure the crack could easily contribute to the joint breaking under stress right at the point of the repair. The silk has some strength around the circumference, but nothing longitudinal or perpendicular to the channel that was cut out by the lathe. In the long run a repair like this weakens the instrument and makes it more susceptible to far worse damage than the crack.

When we make instruments out of trees, if that is to be a sustainable practice, we should at least try to preserve an instrument long enough in its' service that another tree has time to grow to maturity before the instrument is worn out. There is no good reason that wooden instruments can't last for a few hundred years. Sure we will lose a few wooden instruments to catastrophic damage, but most of the ones retired usually are retired because of an accumulation of ill-conceived repairs that accelerated their demise.
- Silversorcerer (David Powell) exclusively for Phil's original “The Clarinet Pages" forum

Offline Windsong

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Re: An interesting banding method.
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2017, 06:22:37 PM »
I see no reason to resort to such an elaborate technique when better, less invasive methods exist (like pinning, if necessary).  Was this an excercise in possibilities?  Likely.  I have certainly never seen anyone else do it this way before, and the fact that cyanocrylate is indeed brittle and not maleable like the original wood, coupled with the fact that the wood grain has, indeed, been compromised, makes me think it was not the best choice.
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