Author Topic: Making new key posts  (Read 90 times)

Offline kewald

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Making new key posts
« on: August 06, 2020, 10:17:06 AM »
This is also posted in the Penzel Mueller Timeline Topic.
I purchased a Penzel Mueller Bb Clarinet on Ebay and am in the process of restoring it.  The clarinet is marked "LP" and "B".  SN is 11832, so apparently it was made ca. 1935.
This was one of my earliest restoration attempts and I made mistakes that ruined two of the key posts.  Essentially, the posts must be replaced or remade. Then fitted to the body and drilled, faced and tapped for a new rod.
Background of the opportunity to learn: When I received the instrument, the Hinge Rod was stuck in the posts and was too short, driven in by someone who broke one of the slot tangs.
Mistakes made:  Tried getting it out by grinding a flat on a spare rod to mate it to the remaining slot - used it like a screwdriver but couldn't get it to budge.  Then, clamped the joint in my drill press vice and drilled out the rod, which messed up the hole in the post when the bit drifted.  Don't recall the exact sequence of subsequent events, but I believe I may have gotten the posts out of the body and then in trying to extract the thread end of the rod - broke it off.  Drilled it out messing up the hole again.  Silver soldered some brass rod into the holes, remounted the posts and tried to drill through one into the other.  Of course, I don't have the proper equipment, so those holes didn't work either.  Filled them both with silver solder and set the project aside. 

That was a few months ago.  In the meantime I've learned a better way of extracting impossible rods - cut between the hinge and post at the slot end with a jewelers saw, remove that post from the body and then twist out the other post using the remaining rod.  Then soak the rod & post in penetrating oil and gradually work the rod out.  Reface the cut post and add a little silver solder to the cut hinge then reface that to fit between the posts - ream to fit the new rod.  I learned about this from a nice professional SaxProShop technician when the second problem arose.

I now have a joint mounting jig and cross slide vice for my drill press, so with the judicious use of a very small machinist jack that I will make from a screw, connecting nut and stop nut, I could attempt another drilling.  However, I'm concerned about the strength of the threads being tapped into silver solder/nickel-silver.  And of course, I might mess it up yet again.

Is it worth fixing? If so, any ideas of someone who could tackle the job, or of another approach.

Thanks
Ken
Retired
Rank beginner at Clarinet and Alto Sax

Offline GrumpyMiddleAgedMan

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Re: Making new key posts
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2020, 01:04:43 PM »
My two cents, take it face value.  :D
I destroyed 3 screws on my first attempt at taking down a clarinet, it was only a few months ago on a Yamaha 250. I figured I would start with something more readily replaceable.  I cranked the screws figuring they would just come out with enough force. I ended up having to drilling out the screws through the post with a dremmel(good idea at the time I thought).  One I actually drilled the whole rod clear to the other side before I figured out I could drill out to the inside of the first post then bend it up pull the key and unscrew the remaining. Bought stock bar, threaded it and put it all back. Fortunately didn't do any real damage and everything went back together nicely. Lesson learned.
I had to remove a screw on I think it was my brilliant. I used a jeweler saw on this one, I had a little clearance between key and post, the Yamaha was too tight, plus I hadent picked one up yet. So cut, bend, pull and unscrew. Worked well enough. 
Anyway, you asked if it is worth it. Self education, hands on experience is priceless. Worst case the only thing you will lose is the cost of the instrument you paid if you do it yourself. If you send it out, unless you have some kind of attachment to it you will more than likely spend far more than the worth of the finished product. As a hobby I find it fun to monkey with this sort of thing but I'm not expecting to many anything off of it.
Only happy mistakes here.

Offline kewald

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Re: Making new key posts
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2020, 03:15:52 PM »
My two cents, take it face value.  :D
I destroyed 3 screws on my first attempt at taking down a clarinet, it was only a few months ago on a Yamaha 250. I figured I would start with something more readily replaceable.  I cranked the screws figuring they would just come out with enough force. I ended up having to drilling out the screws through the post with a dremmel(good idea at the time I thought).  One I actually drilled the whole rod clear to the other side before I figured out I could drill out to the inside of the first post then bend it up pull the key and unscrew the remaining. Bought stock bar, threaded it and put it all back. Fortunately didn't do any real damage and everything went back together nicely. Lesson learned.
I had to remove a screw on I think it was my brilliant. I used a jeweler saw on this one, I had a little clearance between key and post, the Yamaha was too tight, plus I hadent picked one up yet. So cut, bend, pull and unscrew. Worked well enough. 
Anyway, you asked if it is worth it. Self education, hands on experience is priceless. Worst case the only thing you will lose is the cost of the instrument you paid if you do it yourself. If you send it out, unless you have some kind of attachment to it you will more than likely spend far more than the worth of the finished product. As a hobby I find it fun to monkey with this sort of thing but I'm not expecting to many anything off of it.
Thanks.  I am considering buying a small, inexpensive engine lathe to make the parts.  That way I can make more posts, etc. if needed.  I have had machining done on another project recently and paid $50 per hour for that.  Too expensive for this kind of project.  But if I have a machine that's capable costs will be primarily for material.  I have a full woodworking shop already, so one more little machine might be useful for many other projects.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 03:17:40 PM by kewald »
Ken
Retired
Rank beginner at Clarinet and Alto Sax

Offline windydankoff

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Re: Making new key posts
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2020, 06:31:02 AM »
Thank you Ken. Keep us "posted" (sorry) ... with pictures too, if you don't mind.
Windy at BLACK HOLE Clarinets
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