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Author Topic: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?  (Read 1036 times)

Offline Snorky

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Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« on: March 30, 2022, 10:31:41 AM »
Hi all. Long tome lurker, well you know the rest.
I recently acquired this clarinet and am just redoing it to make available to students. I have done this for a few years. I don't charge for my time and I can make sure that beginners have a decent instrument.
However I can't find ANY info on this clarinet. Anyone know anything about this?
BTW this has been and is a great site to learn from. Thanks to everyone.
Jeff

Offline Snorky

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2022, 10:34:12 AM »
OOps forget to mention that it appears to have a thin metal sleeve on the inside of the upper joint the whole length.

Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2022, 01:54:17 PM »
Looks legit. Very unusual to have any type of copy/counterfeit of a clarinet that is NOT a Buffet.

If it's got a metal sleeve, then it is a Silver Throat style clarinet, which was produced most often by Pruefer and Malerne, if I recall.

There's a whole Silver Throat thread here: https://clarinetpages.info/smf/index.php/topic,524.0.html
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Snorky

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2022, 08:48:16 AM »
Thanks.
I was confused by the Cleveland marked bell ( which I couldn't find on the H.N. White model list)  but on closer inspection it looks like it was a replacement. Probably a forgery.
I finished it and it plays better than I thought it was going to.

Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2022, 07:16:05 AM »
Again, I don't think it what you would call a forgery or a counterfeit. There's absolutely no reason to counterfeit something like this. That being said, counterfeit clarinets are almost entirely of Buffet models, with a minority of Selmers.

Could be a replacement bell, for a variety of reasons. Doesn't make it counterfeit or a copy.
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Snorky

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2022, 05:18:19 PM »
Yeah, I hear what your saying. Doesn't make sense to to copy it.
Why I said that is that I couldn't find anything about HN White making a plastic bell for any clarinet. All I could find was that they made all metal ones.
But it doesn't matter. I think I'll just say it's a Frankennet :-)
Thanks for your help and also the links for the Silver Throat. Jeff

Offline mechanic

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2022, 05:44:16 PM »

https://www.hnwhite.com/Clarinets.htm


This page says: In later years, White did import some wood clarinets for sale under the 'Cleveland' or 'American Standard' brand name.
[/size]There are numerous French stencil clarinets with wood joints and plastic barrels and bells.   The Cleveland bell could be one of those. 
For Phil's  " The Clarinet Pages " forum. https://clarinetpages.info/

Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2022, 05:20:32 AM »
There’s any number of reasons why a clarinet might have a plastic bell. Sometimes there was surplus for another model or line, restamped.

Sometimes, to save costs (you need a rather large block of wood to make a bell), they went with another material.

Sometimes a different material bell was just a feature of a particular model. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline Snorky

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2022, 09:06:26 AM »
Thanks to you both. I guess I didn't pay close enough attention to the imported notes.

I appreciate the answers and knowledge.

Jeff

Offline 350 Rocket

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2022, 11:55:25 AM »
H.N. White did indeed sell a plastic Cleveland clarinet. It's model 707 and the metal liner was a no-cost option. It was introduced in the early '60s.

I know there were later Cleveland 707s that were made in Germany (probably by Schreiber).
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Offline Snorky

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2022, 08:53:02 AM »
Ah. Now I see why I couldn't find it. I was searching HN White site rather than the King site.
Thanks for the reply. I can finally rest  :-)     
I forgot about the sale of HN White.

Offline LarryS

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2022, 11:38:35 AM »
What is the purpose of the metal sleeve?
You don't stop playing when you get old, you get old when you stop playing.
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Offline windydankoff

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Re: Is this legit or a fake(copy)?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2022, 04:01:11 PM »
It looks to me like hard rubber, not plastic. And, the look of the pad cups indicates it may be a Pruefer Silver Throat under a different name. In that case, very much worth fixing!

The liner tube began with Pruefer production from 1940 to about 68. It's brass, plated to look like German silver. Presumably, it makes it play louder, and also makes it impossible to break the center tenon. It was marketed mostly as a student step-up, but is also well-regarded by jazz players. There are some other message threads on Silver Throat.

Is it hard rubber? Dip a cotton tip in acetone and rub a hidden spot of the body like the end of a tenon. If no black comes off, it's rubber, not plastic. The bell looks like plastic, but not original.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 04:02:46 PM by windydankoff »
Windy at BLACK • HOLE Clarinets
"User-Friendly" clarinets in Bb and C
http://www.windydankoff.com/black-hole-clarinets.html