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Author Topic: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?  (Read 1656 times)

Offline 350 Rocket

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Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« on: February 18, 2024, 08:21:24 AM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166602663320

I don't believe H.N. White made clarinets in-house of anything other than metal. This one appears to be hard rubber, and the serial number of E7146 not only fits the Pedler sequence, but it looks like it was put there with the same stamp set that placed the serial number on my HR Pedler Bb.

I've never seen another H.N. White clarinet that appeared to be a Pedler stencil, and I'm not familiar with Eb clarinets. Does this look like a Pedler?
Posted to the original The Clarinet Pages forum from my Power Macintosh 6100/60 using Netscape Navigator™

Offline Windsong

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2024, 06:33:43 PM »
Yessir. I am 100% certain that it is a Harry Pedler & Co. 
The parakeet bar crowsfoot and the leaf style RH pinky cluster are an instant giveaway.
I assume you are in it to win it? (If so, I'll stay out.)
Beautiful. 
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Offline 350 Rocket

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2024, 07:52:37 PM »
Thanks for confirming!

I'm not bidding on it, no. If it stays cheap enough I might, but I have little need for an Eb.
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2024, 08:38:24 PM »
Understood.  And yes--a key of C would be nice.
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Online philpedler

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2024, 03:01:51 PM »
I'm glad Windsong was able to answer!

Looks to be made of hard rubber, not wood.

Still cheap!

Offline Windsong

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2024, 03:14:28 PM »
I believe that's right.  The E prefix among Pedler clarinets would indicate Ebonite.  This would be a fine one for outdoor use.
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2024, 05:39:14 AM »
 Rocket-

I just found this post from 2016, where Modernicus makes the Harry Pedler/H.N. White connection with the crowsfoot alternative, or "Pedler Appliance".  Methinks the connection runs deeper than just a single model, which is even more perplexing.  HP may have had the H.N. White contract for a while:
 

Re: The "Harry"
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2016, 02:37:50 PM »

"Some Harry Pedler metals as well as H.N. White metal clarinets used this arm/ no crow's foot arrangement as well back then.  I think silver(sorcerer) mentioned that Peter Eaton has used it in more recent times.  Looks like a good idea."
« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 05:40:53 AM by Windsong »
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Offline 350 Rocket

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2024, 09:02:32 AM »
I always forget about the F/C regulation mechanism on early metal Pedlers since it's so uncommon.

H.N. White used that mechanism from the beginning on the Silver King (introduced in 1928) and Cleveland 607. They started making the American Standard 245 in-house, with that mechanism, in about 1930. Prior to that, they were stenciled - but from H. Bettoney, not Pedler.

It seems that Pedler dropped this feature early on, at least from metal models. I've only seen it on the earliest ones. H.N. White kept using it until they stopped making metal clarinets in the '60s, so if this was Pedler's invention, it outlived the company.

Do you know if there was a patent on that feature? If so, Harry Pedler must have licensed (or even sold) it to H.N. White. (As an aside, it's a great mechanism, and I can't believe it didn't find wider acceptance. I can see French makers being resistant to it, but it's the kind of feature I wouldn't be surprised to see on a modern Yamaha.)
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2024, 12:58:41 PM »
Harry Pedler used it pretty regularly early on in his Ebonite and wood clarinets, but once he was gone and Martin took over, it is seldom seen again, though I do have 3 "The Pedler" models that have it.  Interestingly, all 3 are 7-ring models.  All are from post WWII.  I believe Silversorcerer found the patent at one point. True, that the metal clarinets with this feature were short-lived and extremely uncommon--perhaps even rare.

I agree with you, and it still amazes me that the only company using it still is Peter Eaton--in almost identical form to Pedler's design.  Perhaps Eaton bought the patent rights, or the patent expired.  It really is superior to a crowsfoot mechanism.

(Photo is from the Peter Eaton website):
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 05:56:28 PM by Windsong »
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Offline modernicus

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2024, 05:19:47 PM »
I saw this Eb, very cool.  Josef clarinets use, or did in recent times, use a similar alternative crow's foot mechanism.  They're a boutique manufacturer from Japan from what I recall.  Then there was a Brazilian, I think?!, small mfg. that was also doing something similar.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2024, 05:21:18 PM by modernicus »
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Offline Windsong

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Re: Is this H.N. White Eb a Pedler stencil?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2024, 05:33:27 PM »
Mod,
I was not aware of Josef clarinets, so I appreciate that.  I have looked at Josef clarinets and they are wildly different than anything I have seen before, BUT they also have the tiny pad cups that dangle off of ring keys or tandem pad cups to prevent stuffiness, or to clean up intonation imperfections, just as Harry Pedler and a scarce few others did.  I love innovative technique, and while Josef clarinets look astronomically expensive,  they clearly appear to be exceptionally well crafted and conceived, like Peter Eaton clarinets.  Very interesting.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2024, 06:17:10 PM by Windsong »
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