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Author Topic: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line  (Read 52213 times)

Offline Chotii

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #120 on: August 01, 2020, 04:04:31 PM »
And here is this one:

PM Brillante, serial number M3931-B

Acquired today from a thrift store. Wood is not cracked or dry that I can see. Joints feel loose. Pad seem fine but I do not play clarinet. The rings look silver plated.

Hi, I’m new. :)

Offline GrumpyMiddleAgedMan

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2020, 02:13:49 AM »
I lifted this off an eBay auction. I didn't buy it but thought it would be pertinent to this conversation. Its not an exact date of manufacture but it gives an approximate date.
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Offline kewald

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #122 on: August 04, 2020, 05:43:48 PM »
I purchased a Penzel Mueller Bb Clarinet on Ebay and am in the process of restoring it.  The clarinet is marked "LP" and "B".  SN is 11832, so apparently it was made ca. 1935.
This was one of my earliest restoration attempts and I made mistakes that ruined two of the key posts.  Essentially, the posts must be replaced or remade. Then fitted to the body and drilled, faced and tapped for a new rod.
Background of the opportunity to learn: When I received the instrument, the Hinge Rod was stuck in the posts and was too short, driven in by someone who broke one of the slot tangs.
Mistakes made:  Tried getting it out by grinding a flat on a spare rod to mate it to the remaining slot - used it like a screwdriver but couldn't get it to budge.  Then, clamped the joint in my drill press vice and drilled out the rod, which messed up the hole in the post when the bit drifted.  Don't recall the exact sequence of subsequent events, but I believe I may have gotten the posts out of the body and then in trying to extract the thread end of the rod - broke it off.  Drilled it out messing up the hole again.  Silver soldered some brass rod into the holes, remounted the posts and tried to drill through one into the other.  Of course, I don't have the proper equipment, so those holes didn't work either.  Filled them both with silver solder and set the project aside. 

That was a few months ago.  In the meantime I've learned a better way of extracting impossible rods - cut between the hinge and post at the slot end with a jewelers saw, remove that post from the body and then twist out the other post using the remaining rod.  Then soak the rod & post in penetrating oil and gradually work the rod out.  Reface the cut post and add a little silver solder to the cut hinge then reface that to fit between the posts - ream to fit the new rod.  I learned about this from a nice professional SaxProShop technician when the second problem arose.

I now have a joint mounting jig and cross slide vice for my drill press, so with the judicious use of a very small machinist jack that I will make from a screw, connecting nut and stop nut, I could attempt another drilling.  However, I'm concerned about the strength of the threads being tapped into silver solder/nickel-silver.  And of course, I might mess it up yet again.
Is it worth fixing? If so, any ideas of someone who could tackle the job, or of another approach.

Thanks
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 10:14:59 AM by kewald »
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Offline GrumpyMiddleAgedMan

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #123 on: August 25, 2020, 02:12:56 PM »
Just for current standings on this thread. I was wondering if this was still an active course of investigation and record or is it defunct. I am going to assume one of two things has happened. Silver sorcerer is no longer walking among us. He is extremely busy and not able to complete his research or something along those lines.
With that in mind is anyone carrying forth on this or is it a dead subject which people unknowingly think is still ongoing. Personally I think it is of tremendous value as to what has been done already. No I am not the sort of person to further it but I can appreciate the effort and what has been done.
If  no one is actively managing it maybe it would be time to post something to that effect. This way people contributing to this thread know further information is basically falling on deaf ears.
Is there anybody out there...
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Offline kewald

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #124 on: August 25, 2020, 02:37:32 PM »
Apparently I’m the only one interested, so do whatever is done for stale topics.
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Offline DaveLeBlanc

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #125 on: August 25, 2020, 03:09:41 PM »
Thanks for your comments. I apologize that this thread is not better moderated and followed.

This thread was decided to be made Sticky because of the wealth of information contained within. One of these days, I hope we can collate the information into a more unified and easy to navigate format.

Unfortunately, I am not the expert in PM instruments. I will try to reach out to Silver Sorcerer and see what we can do.

Thanks for the feedback
David Watson of the original The Clarinet Pages
Irvine, California, United States

Offline kewald

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #126 on: June 03, 2021, 01:45:36 PM »
I just received another Penzel Mueller Bb clarinet.  SN  10754.
The mouthpiece and barrel are both marked "Artist" above "Model", above Penzel Mueller, above Long Island City N.Y.
However, the upper joint has LP near the top tenon, and B above the Eagle.  Both joints have the Eagle above "Penzel Muller & Co" New York.
The Bell is marked "The Pedler", Elkhart, Ind.  So obviously a replacement bell.


The Left hand ring keywork is something I've never seen before.


And the case is quite unusual.  I think I'll restore it.


So, is this an Artist model clarinet?  About when would it have been made?


What is the keywork called/used for?

Ken
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Offline polemonium

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #127 on: December 17, 2021, 12:51:30 PM »
I've been interested in Penzel-Mueller for a while (I got a P-M clarinet years ago, before you could research these things on the internet, but never took learning to play seriously until recently).  I have read through this thread a few times as a guest. It seems generally assumed that Penzel-Mueller stopped in the late 1950s or 1960. I found these interesting P-M price lists on Reverb (I don't collect memorabilia and it's not my item): https://reverb.com/item/35945607-penzel-mueller-1968-and-1970-price-list

The price lists are labeled "68" and "70" and the seller calls them from 1968 and 1970. That might be a leap, but the address on the first page uses a 5-digit zip code. ZIP codes were introduced in 1963 and not everyone used them right away, so it roughly supports the seller's dating, or at least says that Penzel-Mueller still existed in the mid 1960s. They advertised a line of several clarinet models and were importing/representing Borgani saxophones and a variety of other instruments.  An image of the 1970 pricelist is attached.

The lists are also marked "E. Chiassarini Division" - not sure if P-M was a division of Chiassarini or the other way around. I can't find much about Chiassarini other than that an Evaldo Chiassarini imported reeds in the 1920s.

Offline brigaltman

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #128 on: February 18, 2022, 11:43:14 AM »
There was just a set of Penzel Mueller clarinets sold on an auction site. Their serial numbers were 9274(Bb) and 9275(A). They were Albert system clarinets with a wrap around register key. The most interesting feature was that like an Eb clarinet, each of these had a single piece body even though they were made of wood.
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Offline kewald

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2022, 05:25:32 PM »
I've been interested in Penzel-Mueller for a while (I got a P-M clarinet years ago, before you could research these things on the internet, but never took learning to play seriously until recently).  I have read through this thread a few times as a guest. It seems generally assumed that Penzel-Mueller stopped in the late 1950s or 1960. I found these interesting P-M price lists on Reverb (I don't collect memorabilia and it's not my item): https://reverb.com/item/35945607-penzel-mueller-1968-and-1970-price-list

The price lists are labeled "68" and "70" and the seller calls them from 1968 and 1970. That might be a leap, but the address on the first page uses a 5-digit zip code. ZIP codes were introduced in 1963 and not everyone used them right away, so it roughly supports the seller's dating, or at least says that Penzel-Mueller still existed in the mid 1960s. They advertised a line of several clarinet models and were importing/representing Borgani saxophones and a variety of other instruments.  An image of the 1970 pricelist is attached.

The lists are also marked "E. Chiassarini Division" - not sure if P-M was a division of Chiassarini or the other way around. I can't find much about Chiassarini other than that an Evaldo Chiassarini imported reeds in the 1920s.


I have a later PM Jean Aubert model that is hard rubber and was apparently made in Paris for PM.  Phil Pedler reviewed it and initially thought it wasn't a PM, but then found a clear more modern PM logo on it. 
Ken
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Offline ChristieWinters

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #130 on: September 17, 2022, 12:42:38 PM »
This Clarinet was donated to our charity Seeds Of Service. Our mission is to work with youth and young adult who have special needs, at rick behavior and learning disabilities. They run over 26 community outreach programs. Our moto is Helping Each other Help Others !!

one of the programs is work preparedness and we run an ebay / e-commerce auction house. The community donates items to us. This clarinet was donated and we can't seem to figure out what the model it is. I have attached photos below. The serial number " 2692 " dose not seem to match any of the ones you have listed so maybe it is a new one ?
Also it has no model name just the eagle and then below it the name Penzel Mueller co New york that is enclosed with dashes in a circle around the name and the eagle sit on top of that.

Many Thanks For any information you can help us with the Students would like to list it on ebay.

Christie 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 01:53:12 PM by ChristieWinters »


Offline brigaltman

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #132 on: October 08, 2022, 01:55:15 PM »
OK,  I've got a couple more numbers for your list. First is 14293 which is an Artist's Model A clarinet. It came with two barrels, each of which is clearly labelled Artist's Model A. One of the barrels is marked USN. I can find no other marking on the instrument or the second barrel. The serial number is stamped at the bottom of both the upper and lower joints. The clarinet has the smaller "Artist" engraved below the New York stamp.

The second instrument is number 17509. This is a Bb clarinet with one barrel. The "Artist" on this one is larger and engraved just below the eagle. The serial number on the upper joint is stamped vertically between the second and third posts of the right hand trill keys. The serial number on the lower section is also stamped vertically below the forked B/F# post and under the right hand little finger F#/C# key.
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Offline geogal17

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Re: Penzel Mueller Serial Time line
« Reply #133 on: November 25, 2022, 02:18:55 PM »
I am so grateful that this thread is still up even if not super active, lots of great info!   Here is my contribution to the list: 

Recently purchased a Penzel Mueller Artist from a goodwill of all places in southern California.  Its in surprisingly amazing shape, serial number 15655.  Plays very well and was obviously well cared for and had corks/pads/springs replaced. 

I wonder where this one would fit on the timeline?  1930s? 40s?